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CSN: Redskins’ Cousins sees a real franchise QB at work on Monday

Sep 13, 2016, 11:55 AM EDT


Via Tandler on CSN: If Redskins QB Kirk Cousins wants a big payday in the future he should look at what happened when his counterpart was in the game last night.



  1. snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:26 PM

    Well the old Rex Cousins came out to play last night. Lets hope Kirk Cousins is still in there somewhere.
    Obviously Kirk did not have enough reps this off season coming into week 1.

    Other factors,

    everyone is talking about Norman not being on Brown. That is because Norman cannot cover one on one in man coverage. He is not good at it. Thats why.

    Looked much like last year. Can not run the ball and can not stop the run. Dallas might go for over 200+ on the ground next week. We shall see.

    And the center had an awful game. In fact the entire offensive and defensive line suck. Joe Jacoby was tweeting out about how weak are guys up front are. What happened to the real Hogs?

    • COSSkinsFan - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:35 PM

      Hogs 2.0 looked like the Hogs .25

    • COSSkinsFan - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:07 PM

      Still wish we would resign pot roast. Obviously no one else is rushing to sign him either, but he should come cheap and is he worse than who we have now?

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 14, 2016 at 12:33 AM

        I’m sure they’re looking at all available options. I was a big proponent of bringing him back but I’m not so sure anymore. There has to be a reason they’re so down on him. They obviously know things about him we don’t and I have to assume that has something to do with it. I can’t imagine McCloughan believes that he could help us, at a low cost, and then not sign him. Doesn’t make any sense.

        The D-line won’t be a strength any time soon but they can get better if our run game gets better. These guys aren’t terrible football players. But they were on the field a lot. We have to be able to sustain long drives and give them a break.

  2. metalman5150 - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:39 PM

    Kirk looked way too flat and lead his receivers into some precarious situations.

    Run game, sure it is a concern, but I am more concerned about Kirk and our passing game than I am of our defense or run game.

    Penalties will be the death of any hope, left.

    one on one versus antonio brown = good luck, cromarty, revis, peterson, anyone – good luck.

    I say stick to the plan of allowing Norman on the left and Breeland on the right. It could have been any corner on Brown for this two touchdowns, and Brown wins it 99% of the time. Those passes were spot on and nothing anyone could do about it, other than pray that Brown drops them.

  3. redskins12thman - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:43 PM

    The top four current franchise QBs are Brady, Rogers, Roethlisberger and Brees. The next three current franchise QBs are E. Manning, Flacco and Wilson. The next three after that are probably Newton, Rivers and Luck. Cousins needs to play better against better opponents before he can even sniff these ten. Palmer and Dalton are probably ahead of Cousins too.

    • nikoknight - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:46 PM

      In my opinion, Palmer and Dalton are definitely ahead of Kirk. There’s also some decent young talent in this league that may be ahead of him as well (Carr, Winston, etc)

      • sidepull - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:57 PM

        Alex Smith is ahead of him.

        • sidepull - Sep 13, 2016 at 12:58 PM

          This week

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:27 PM

          Alex Smith is underrated in my opinion. I would take him in a heart beat.

          Cousins has a bad, bad game. No question. But I’m not too worried yet. He’s still very much developing. He’s going to have sown ups and downs. Ben is an all time great and has had a long time to get this good.

          I do believe Cousins has top 10 ability in him though. It’s just going to take a little more time. For him and the whole team. If you stop thinking of them as division champs and start thinking of them as a team in year two of a complete rebuild them they look right on schedule.

      • nikoknight - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM

        @ Trey: I don’t think Cousins has top 10 ability. I just don’t believe physically he has all the tools to become that. On the other hand, I do believe he has the ability to put up top 10 numbers in this offense, especially when it is clicking. We all saw what it can be last year and there’s even more pieces on that side of the ball. I’m far from somebody to call for McCoy after a game. I still have faith Kirk will have a very solid year. But, he needs a run game (or for god’s sake any sort of resemblance of one). Also, I’m not worried about the missed throws, those kind of things happen, even to the elite guys. The thing that worries me is playing scared. Not recognizing a 3 man pass rush and allowing time for a play to develop. Seeing weeks 1-6 Kirk from last year and immediately dumping the ball off. Granted Pitt’s zone was allowing for that. Also to piggyback off of that, recognizing the 3 man rush, stepping up in the pocket, and taking off if need be. Those are my major concerns from last night

        • chimps000 - Sep 13, 2016 at 10:22 PM

          your comment is spot on.

          No way cousins has top 10 ability, but he can certainly be successful, especially with the talent the skins have on offense. He can’t play much worse than that… that was a horrid performance.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 14, 2016 at 12:22 AM

          What physical tools do you feel Cousins is missing to become a top 10 QB? I get he doesn’t have the strongest arm, but it’s NFL weak either. That’s Colt McCoy.

          I don’t make much of a differentiation between a top 10 QB and someone who plays like one. Cousins played like a top 5 QB for at least part of last season so I know the ability is there. We have seen more than one game from Cousins. Those problems from last night don’t show up in every game. He had a bad night, and now he’s going to reload and get back on track. We really didn’t learn anything about our team last night except they were unprepared.

          Every QB needs a run game. Cousins will continue to fail if he doesn’t get one. I know John Gruden was giving Cousins crap about that 3 man rush but the thing is, if only 3 rush, then there’s 8 in coverage. Pittsburg sat back in an eight man zone because there was no run threat. That’s hard to throw against and Cousins took what they gave him. If he would have forced a ball into that zone and got picked Gruden would have criticized that too. He was in a bad situation because there was no run game and the O-line couldn’t hold up under a 3 man rush (where their blame?).

          Now, a more experienced QB would have stepped up and tried to buy more time. But running wouldn’t have gotten him anywhere. The linebackers were sitting right on the first down yardage and they would have got him way before. That’s why his eventual pass would have failed if completed too. There’s also no saying the DT doesn’t stick his arm it and grab Cousinsnif he steps up. The O-line has to do better.

          The solution is to get a damn run game going so it’s not 3rd and 9 and the defense can’t sit back in a zone and have the protection hold up. Cousins is still a relatively inexperienced starter. He will get more savvy in their situations. But for now, he needs some help from his team.

        • nikoknight - Sep 14, 2016 at 6:20 AM

          I guess when I think top 10, I think a guy that could go on any team and that team instantly becomes better. And that, I just don’t see with Kirk. I personally just see him more as a guy that can flourish in the right type of offense (which is perfectly fine considering this offense is the exact type I’m talking about). But again, I was and still am a huge proponent of him in this offense. Like I said earlier, we’ve already seen what it can be. Monday’s game was tough all around. The majority of QBs aren’t going to be successful with a nonexistent running game, not just Kirk. For me personally, it was more of a body language thing. To me, he just appeared to play timid, which I don’t suspect will continue. There’s 15 games left on the schedule to bounce back from that.

    • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM


      It’s just funny I’ve been being killed for saying we shouldn’t pay Kirk wait and see if he’s Rex Grossman or not. *in my finest of Lauryn Hill voices* Where were you…. when I neeeeded youuuu? I still think Kirk has a high ceiling. In three weeks he could be back looking like last 8 games Kirk. I wonder if management would be OK with him being a late season QB. Like what if that becomes his hallmark like how Eli came on late both seasons they won the SB? I just want so see good games and not be heckled at work. By Bears fans that let Brock.. you know what I’m not going to do that. Thanks Redskins, it’s not all on Kirk but he has hearty portion

      • redskins12thman - Sep 13, 2016 at 1:50 PM

        I still would have signed Cousins to a long-term deal when the terms were better because there will be at least a couple teams interested in giving Cousins a shot if it wasn’t working out for us (e.g., Cleveland, Chicago, NY Jets, etc.)

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:17 PM

          His terms were never low that’s why he wasn’t signed. They tried to give him 16M/ year and he turned it down. That would’ve put him in the Osweiler range which is about where he should be with his limited body of work. I forget what he was asking for in guarantees but that also fell into upper level to elite money. Paying top tier money when you can’t hang with top tier talent is bad investing. I would’ve been happy with a 3 year deal with reasonable terms but Kirk was in a seller’s market and bet on himself. He won 20M but hopefully his assessment takes a turn for the better.

        • snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:35 PM

          Cousins is 0 – 26 against teams with winning records. There is no interest.

        • ET - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:00 PM

          Lest we mock ol’ Rex too hard, he did pilot a team to the Super Bowl. It’s been a long time since that happened in Delmarva.

          Just sayin’.

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:31 PM

        I still would have signed him and you’re really playing the “I was right” cards way, way too early. It’s one game man. 1/16th of a season. Relax.

        Remember what I said about the pressure of playing for a huge contract looming over him could affect his play? I could just as easily be in every post saying I was right about that and you should have all listened to me and we should have paid him. But that would be obnoxious, way too soon, and probably not the whole story. Let’s just see what happens before we start with the “I told you so” remarks. We truly have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes or what the future will hold.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:44 PM

          1. I was adressing the 100 people above me that are all saying what I’ve been saying because I mean really.. how many people were saying it months ago?

          2. I am right. I don’t care if this was one second into the 1st quarter. I wouldn’t care if we had won last night I would still be saying “can he do it again? He beat a banged up Steelers D at home. etc..” Not beating my chest because we lost and Kirk looked like Rex (an analogy you heard here first.. probably why my #1 point was my #1 point) I’m simply saying we’ll see. And that we’ll see was and is still a smart position because he hasn’t shown us yet that he can do it.. consistently or at all.

          3. You can say whatever you want Trey. Who cares if other people think it’s obnoxious. People probably think we’re fanatics (and not in the good way) for coming on this website and talking about a team that hasn’t won anything in 20 years. Your perception is your reality don’t live your life in the shadow of stranger’s opinions.

          3b. I could care less if the pressure is getting to Kirk. That pendulum swings both ways. Oh he’s under pressure because he’s playing for a new contract? How many times have we heard of guys getting paid and falling to the pressure to live up to the contract or the hype. Was that not one of the main things we heard after aqcuiring Josh? How we shouldn’t worry because the pressure of his contract hasn’t affected his work ethic? I doubt they would’ve brought it up if that wasn’t common.

          4. See #2

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:17 PM

          1) 1,000 people were saying that months ago including at least half of the sports commentators in the nation. So don’t give yourself too much credit.

          2) You don’t know that you’re right. Nobody does.

          3) I was implying that you’re being obnoxious. I said, and say, everything I want to because I think before I speak. I was providing you with a counter example to what you said. You have a reason for why not paying was a good idea even though you have no idea if it’s correct and I gave you a reason for why we should have paid him and we have no idea if it’s correct. It was supposed to illustrate that we don’t know so it’s ridiculous to hop on telling anyone who will listen that you were right. That’s twice now that you’ve missed two clear counter examples that Ive thrown your way (the first was Romo and Manning). They’re statements that nobody is supposed to agree with, but are similar in structure to another statement that was made, to prove it’s bad logic. We may argue less and get more quality discussions if we can get in the same page there.

          4) The pressure of having long-term security and the pressure of trying to get long-term security are two different things. Even if Norman fails, he will have made more money off one contract than any other corner before him. That’s kind of an irrelevant point since I wasn’t seriously suggesting that Cousins is faltering under the pressure, I just wanted to clear that up.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:42 PM

          1. I damn sure didn’t see them. All I remember is everybody being pissed he didn’t get paid.

          2. I am right. I’m not gonna say how many games he’s going to win. IDK. I’m not going to say he’s going to be a top ten QB eventually. IDK. I’m not saying cut the check and hope for the best. I know better.

          3. No I caught what you were saying and in the same subliminal undertone I told you I don’t live in the shadow of other people’s opinion’s. Your logic is never clear look at you still putting Romo. In the same sentence as Manning. That should just never happen. You also told me something like “Tony hasn’t dealt with injuries his whole career this a recent development that the offseason should fix” Injury report determined that was a lie! We’d have more quality discussions if we agreed to disagree instead of trying to coerce each other into our own way of thinking. Did Niles get any PT btw? I know Davis didn’t beat him out did he?

          4. They’re different? You mean in the way that a pendulum reverse direction but exerts the same amount of uniformed energy through out the motion? How many athletes have WE SEEN come in get a fat check from Dan then say “well i found myself trying to do too much just trying to live up to that contract.” Now if you want to call that BS then I’m going to counter with I doubt Kirk was out there trying to figure out how he is going to pay his light bill in 9 years, that’s why he threw that pick to Shazier.

        • COSSkinsFan - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:27 PM

          I also agree that Cousins will be a top ten qb, hopefully this year. We still have a lot of winnable games and hopefully our young guys continue to develop. The first td went through Breeland’so hands. I didn’t agree or understand the decision not to hire Wade Phillips last year and don’t think Barry is the best man for the job. Gruden is Meh. I remember his first interview on espn after getting the job and he looked like a deer in the headlights. I’ve not liked him but thought he did a good job last year, winning does that. I’ve actually never got the John Gruden hype, he won a super bowl with Tony dungy’so team. It’s funny that Scott talked about building the lines and his success in SF and Sea showed a commitment to that but he ignored our lines this year. I thought we matched up well with the Steelers and we would win. Early in the game if Kerrigan recovered that fumble maybe it would’very changed things. I think the bigger momentum switch was allowing them the first down after that. It seems like for at least 20 years teams run successful screens against us in easily predictable situations and when we run a screen in such situations it gets blown up. 2 and 22 up against your own goaline screams screen or draw and yet the Steelers run it and it turns into a manageable third down which they convert. I don’t get it. It looks like we will live and die on Kirk’s arm this year. It seemed to me that the run game wasn’t working and Kirk wasn’t under heavy pressure so throw deep, maybe that would’ve opened up the run a bit. Heard their resigning Jenkins hopefully that helps, seems like a desperation move to me. CJ Spiller just became available so he might be worth a look. It would’ve been good to have given Kelley a few carries to see what he’s capable of.

    • snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:30 PM

      No need to debate where any of these QB’s rate. Bottom line Cousins is a mid range talent and will probably always rate somewhere around 15th in the league. That is just Cousins.
      Even with Cousins as QB we could Win but not with that defense we got. The defense is a big shocker. I thought for sure they would look better than allowing a 300 yard passer and 100+ rusher in the same game.
      The pass rush is horrible and the GM ignoring the pass rush and RB position is starting to show.

      • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 8:09 PM

        Waaay too early to make this claim. Is he even at 32 games yet?

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM

          No he is not. 26 games I believe. And I think that’s including the games he came in for when RG3 started and got hurt, but I’m not positive.

  4. metalman5150 - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:39 PM

    Any info on why Brewton and Nroman were jawing at each other on the sidelines last night?

    • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:54 PM

      – “Hey Dave, you stink!”

      – “Shut up, you overpaid diva!”

      – “Oh yeah!? Now we’re the hunter while before we were the hunted! Or is it the other way round? Either way, I’m cool and you stink, and what I just said proves it!”

    • redskins12thman - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:59 PM

      Clinton Portia says it was some Carolina – Denver jawing going on and nothing to do with Steelers game.

  5. Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 3:52 PM

    The only solace is that half the teams in the NFL have mediocrities starting at QB. If Jim Cutler and Brian Tannehill can have a job, Kurt Cousins can have a job. Dude needs a running game and an offensive line that doesn’t draw ten flags pr game though. That’s the real issue at hand here. And the team needs to not have the absolute worst D line in the NFL, which we are currently the proud owners of. If we exclude Baker, who is a good player, I think we have the worst two or three linemen in the NFL starting on our team. Uncle Kedric would be selling hot dogs in the stands on any other team, and Reyes is even worse. And he’s apparently better than Paea was, who we spent millions on so he could be photographed while lifting weights.

    We’re a joke. Singling Cousins out when the team is this bad is just mindless. He’s got some issues, but we’re not winning a thing with this defense no matter what he does. I was foolish and thought we may have improved over summer. We have not. We are much worse on both sides of the ball. We’ll be lucky to get five wins.

    • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 4:32 PM

      We’re about the same as last year. We just played a better team in week one. The only difference that lead to us winning was QB play. Our pass rush got better as time went on (also coincided with a soft spot in our schedule) and Smith found his way but our run D was still porous. So singling out Cousins may be unfair but it’s the inherent cost of being a QB. You get all the glory when we win and all the blame when we lose. But we are NOT that bad, if Cousins get better, I still have us going at least 8-8. If Cousins doesn’t improve.. 5 games could be the goal. I completely understand your panic as I look at the schedule after Dal next week At NY, home for the Browns which won’t be as much as a charity game now that RGIII is hurt, At Bal, home for PHI, and then at Detroit. If we’re going to be 8-8 we NEED to steal some games in this bunch or else. After week 7 I’m not seeing the late season push Kirk pulled off last year, Bengals in London, viking at fedex, pack at home, dal again Away, cardinals in ARI, Eagles on the road, panthers, bears in CHI and giants at fed ex. But still we don’t know who we have yet. Kirk could be Rex Grossman or Tom Brady it’s too soon to tell let’s give him some time. If he melts down we can all go THANK GOD WE AREN’T MARRIED TO HIM! If he takes off

      • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:49 PM

        But we are that bad! The running game was awful, from the QB to the RBs to the line. Kirk even managed to set Matt up for a good run to the right, the entire line pulled right with Trent containing, and then he handed Matt off to the left instead so he got completely destroyed! It’s unbelievable and like they’re all sedated or something. We couldn’t run the ball if we bribed the opposing team to leave the field.
        And we have massively downgraded the 27th best defensive line of 2015 by losing Knighton and Hatcher and replacing them with Uncle Ked and Reyes, possible the worst defensive lineman in the NFL, subs included. We are not winning any games with this defense. None. So until they make some moves expect nothing but losses. That is how bad we are.
        So add the putrid QB performance to this and you’re looking at us, the Browns and the Rams competing for the number one pick next year. No one else is even close to being this bad right now. Or they can turn it around, which requires this miserable performance to have been some sort of fluke. They really know better but just sucked this one time. Why should we believe that? This is who they are as far as I’m concerned. Undisciplined, overrated and poorly coached. And we apparently need to send Kirk back to his sports psychologist again too.

        • ET - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:06 PM

          “We are not winning any games with this defense. None. So until they make some moves expect nothing but losses. That is how bad we are.”

          I’ll bet you’re a lotta fun to watch games with.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:01 PM

          You’re cracking me up today ET

        • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:08 PM

          For God’s sake, we can’t rush the passer, can’t stop the run and now can’t cover receivers either. That’s basically all the things a normal NFL defense does. And almost all of them can do at minimum one of these things, sometimes two and in the case of Denver all three. We can do neither.
          This could be the worst defense in NFL history if it keeps going like this and the season is on the line. If they play like this we will lose to the Cowboys and then fly to New York the next week. And then we will be 0-3.

        • COSSkinsFan - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:39 PM

          Not saying this is our 2016 season but the 1991 lions lost to us 45-0 opening day. We played them again in the nfc championship game. This is only one game. I’m not thinking our run game will win any games for us but Kirk will have better games.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:13 PM

          “They really know better but just sucked this one time. Why should we believe that?”

          We should believe that for a few reasons.

          1. We were heavily penalized. “They really know better but just sucked this one time.” Yes they know not to move. Some of it is rust, most of it just pure lack of discipline. Something that can be corrected though.

          2. We returned the same backs, the same o line and the same scheme. Trust me they knew how bad we were which is why you saw us entertaining OL late into camp. They’re just going to have to make in game adjustments better. Why did it take so long to revert to a no huddle? We could’ve went uptempo when the game was still 7-6 and regained the lead. They don’t respect our run game? Fine. Wait until they rotate some of their starters out and once we get the grouping that works in our favor, no huddle. Run about 3-4 pass quick plays plays if we can pick up first downs on at least two, then run it on the 5th play. I mean if we couldn’t run against zone maybe we could against a fatigued D. Hopefully… “They really know better but just sucked this one time.” (lookin at you Jay Gruden)

          3. The defense is not the best but I think this is something that was exacerbated by the fact our offense couldn’t sustain drives. Not to mention who can game plan for Tomlin extending 4 down territory outside of the red zone? Not to mention they kept lining AB up on the left side to get away from Norman. A sign of respect. Breeland is not ready for man coverage on the leagues best WR. If you thought Bree was gonna hang with AB that’s delirium not optimism. Optimism is saying “I was hoping he could but I get it.” We face AJ Green, Jordy Nelson/Cobb, Fitz, Alshon and Kelvin on top of our regular foes in the division. I think we’ll fare better against them. Again hopefully this was a case of “They really know better but just sucked this one time.” which is more like we got out played AND OUT COACHED *Jeremy Shockey voice*

          4. Kirk is going to have to get better. There’s plenty of room for improvement but this is going to be a tough season to do it in. If he can improve and continue with sustained success, at least look competitive, then he’ll get his check. We’ll have our QB. Trey and I will hug it out. If not he’s gonna get released into the wild or tagged again at best. Depends on how bad he looks but this is why the front office gambled on not extending him this year.. So hopefully for Kirk he “[knew] better but just sucked this one time.”

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:30 PM

          Skulb buddy, relax. It’s just one game. All is not lost.

          Lezzie is making a lot of good points here and I agree. I too believe they’ll do better down the road. The Steelers were the better team. That simple. Not every other team is that good. The Steelers are legit favorites for the AFC Championship game. We’re questionable to win our division. It was two teams at different places.

          And Lezzie, I’ll gladly hug it out with you if Cousins tanks and gets cut (or gets a low, low contract). Mostly because I’ll need someone to dry my tears. That would be awful. I don’t want to go through the QB hunt again. But hey, silver lining, if Cousins does suck then we’ll get a high draft pick and there’s a few really good players coming out next year. Including Watson. He could make me forget all about Cousins.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:46 PM

          Which is why wait and see is more ucrative than it seems. Every year there’s a draft and FA. The FA market may not look as great WAIT! WHERE THE HELL IS PIERRE THOMAS?

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 9:22 PM

          I’m not a big fan of the Pierre Thomas idea. I mean, sure, maybe he could help. But I don’t see him as the solution to our problem. I watched a lot of Saints games when Pierre was there. He was awesome. But I never really saw him as a every down workhorse back anyway. He was a great receiving threat and had his fair share of good runs, but he’s older now and I just don’t think his style is what we need.

          I’m actually OK rolling with who we have. I would like to see Kelley get some steady carries before we give up and find someone else. But if we do I would rather see them try to work a trade for Niles Davis or someone really worth a roster spot. By the time Jamal Charles is ready to go, and KC might be willing to let Davis ago relatively cheap, we should have a better idea about Jones and Kelley. Then, we will know if we need to make a move or not. I’m good with that idea.

          Granted we need to win early because it’s going to be tough late. But I think we will be OK for a couple weeks.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM

          I’m not a fan of anyone in our back field. Maybe Thompson but he’ll have to prove his durability. Pierre would just be a stop gap. At 90 he still played with more energy and decisiveness than Jones. Knew we’d regret letting Alfred walk.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 14, 2016 at 12:11 AM

          Yeah I was not a fan of letting Morris go. I was in complete denial it was even a possibility last year. I admit he did not look great last year. Even when the blocking held up he was not himself. But he’s durable and reliable. I think a few things went into that decline that I won’t get into, but they could have worked on it.

          Anyway. Know how you are about paying players before they’ve proven themselves? I’m borderline the same about trading down in the draft. I’m very weary of it because of the players you could miss out on. For example, in 2011 if we don’t trade down we could have had JJ Watt instead of Kerrigan. Ryan Kerrigan is one of my fav players in the team. But he’s not JJ Watt. Was that trade worth it? Not even close.

          In 2015 we picked at the top of every round. In the 3rd Scot decided to trade down. We could have drafted Tyler Lockett and Jeremy Langford instead of Jones and Crowder. Or, we could have drafted David Johnson (yes please) and Jamison Crowder. And all we got in return was Matt Jones and Ari Kouandjo. Hmmm. Worth it? No. I love Crowder too but I would be just as happy with Lockett and much happier with David Johnson.

          That’s the price we paid for trading down. Now we’re feeling the pressure of trading out of the fourth in 2016 because we don’t even have a legitimate rookie D-linemen in development for next year. At best we draft a rookie next year and he has to develop for 2018. Oh boy.

          My point is we could have a special RB on the roster right now and not even worry about Jones. But fans LOVE when Scot talks about trading down for more picks.

          I have faith in Thompson and I’m very intreagued with Kelley (and I’m the exact opposite of Mr. Optimistic about late round roomies and undrafted free agents). I saw something in Kelley during the preseason. Now I want him get some carries to see if it crosses over into the regular season. Jones… sigh…. if he can just get lower I think he can be good enough. Maybe not as a lead back, but very effective as a two-headed monster. But we can’t keep saying “if…” every time he talks about it. He deserves a couple more games to put it all together but it’s getting tough to trust him.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 14, 2016 at 3:08 PM

          I’m ok with trading back if we’re taking what the draft gives us. We R E A C H E D with this draft. Going into the offseason all anyone could talk abou was how loaded this draft is with defensive talent. That’s why I pushed for Doctson in the first round figuring it would be unfavorable risk reward to trade back in get value in later rounds for that side of the ball. The drop off in offensive talent made it clear; our holes on offesive is OL, WR(upcoming), TE(pre Davis aq). Grabbing one in the first round was our best chance to stave off regression on this side. The MADTV guy took JD all is good.

          What I don’t get is how we managed to grab Cravens, Fuller then right here in the 4th we could’ve got RB right where top tier to elite backs have gone or pulling a trifecta on defense. What do we do? Trade for next year. This I’m not ok with. I just need to see Scot’s oard because there’s NO ONE he had valued worth a 4th rd pick? No one? Not even worth picking up an additional 5th in the next round we have to wait until 2017? I just I don’t get that. Then he goes DL and OFF for his next picks plus Daniels. How’d that work out for us?

          He made it clear that he wanted more picks I wonder if that superceded his BPA strategy. I do believe he still draftedbPA according to his board. We won’t know how true that holds until it’s put up to the test of time and we see how the players taken around us develop. Either way that’s a head scratcher. I get trying to be Bill Bellickian but save the experiments for after we win 3-4 SB’s. He’s got that kind of leash you don’t. I mean well you do because you’re the most competent thing we’ve seen in ages so basically this is a stern I’m watching you MADTV guy. Allllways watching.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 14, 2016 at 3:55 PM

          That’s a pretty spot on post Lezzie. I hate to criticize any GM because they have so much more information than us. We don’t know their board, their scouting reports, or strategy. But this one was tough. I’m only criticizing trading back and passing on good talent. True, they’re just prospects and we don’t know how they’ll turn out. But that’s true of every player Scot drafts too (as Ioannidis proved).

          Loved the Doctson pick. I was calling for a DT/DE in the first but then I changed my tune after we signed Norman and I wanted Doctson. That’s the first time a GM has drafted the exact guy I wanted so I was pleased. I love Cravens’ potential and I get why we drafted Fuller. But this is a rebuild Scot. You have to use that 4th. We’re not so loaded with talent that we can pass on quality defensive linemen.

          I am gigantically biased toward Andrew Billings. That being said, I still think he would have been one hell of a 4th round pick. He’s one player I know really well and I think he will have a great career once healthy. But there were other good DL prospects available too. Then, just like you said, good RBs are found in the 4th these days. Booker was available.

          Bellichick has a HOF QB and a roster of guys he build over a decade. We’re not even close to thst. I think Scot is an amazing talent evaluator but I question his decesion making. I seriously think he might have impulse control issues and he takes unnecessary risks (or gambles). It can reasonably be argued that this team would be better off if he just stayed put and made every original pick in both of these drafts. I hope fans remember that before they start cheering for 20 draft picks in 2017.

        • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:45 PM

          But the defense stinks. No rush, no run stop and apparently no coverage. At best we’ll be like last year’s Saints or Giants teams. At worst we’ll be like them except we can’t sustain drives or get in the EZ.
          We were supposed to build from the trenches, remember? So we pass on Leonard Williams for Scherff. Fine, they could both be good, even though Williams is looking amazing and Scherff got moved to guard because he couldn’t beat out Moses.
          But do something else to help out the D line then. We have Kedric Golston and Kendall Reyes STARTING on this team, when they would be cleaning toilet stalls on almost every other team in the NFL.

          That’s I don’t even care about Kirk and the run game when the defense is this terrible. We’re not winning anything anyway. Worse QBs have won the Superbowl with a good defense, such as Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler last year. Kirk and the passing game has to carry the entire team now, as if he’s Drew Brees. And it’s too much.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:58 PM

          oK SO OVERALL i AGREE WITH THAT. wE DID BOTCH A CHANCE TO “GET BETTER” IN THE DRAFT. Sorry about the Caps im not typing that over tho. We are better on defense than we looked last night though. Pass rush is gonna get better when we aren’t trying to bring down a guy like Ben and have to go through a guy like Pouncey to get him.

          This season is going to be tough we’re going against a lot of winning teams and I can’t back Kirk because he hasn’t shown me that he is better but as a fan that’s seen him look good in losses I can hope. We also can’t let the fact that Tomlin is a brilliant head coach be overlooked. That guy had a plan for us. Jay had… a disappointed stare?Everyone kept making a big deal out of D Williams being 34 but he was preserved much of his career as he worked in a two back system. Lightning still looks good because he wasn’t asked to “thunder” for the first 9 years of his career, that was tolbert’s job or stewart.. one of them.

          Dal will be a test for our run D but after that we get a break until week 10. Even then I say we put 8 in the box and force whoever to throw on us. The strength in our D is the back end. The back end of our D is much better than it played last night.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 8:43 PM

          I don’t like our d-line either. I wanted them to draft a DT or DE high too. But they weren’t THAT bad man. Our coverage got torched by the best receiver/QB combo in the game. They’ll do that to plenty other defenses. Doesn’t mean we don’t have coverage. It was just one game man. You really can’t draw all these conclusions from one game. Especially against such a good team. They’ll make some corrections and play better next week. I’m sure if it.

          Also, the defense was gassed just a few min into the 3rd quarter. It’s hard to evaluate them when they weren’t getting any breaks. The Steelers could run the ball and we couldn’t. The Steeler’s had long drives that ate up a lot of clock and we couldn’t sustain a drive.

          People keep saying that a 33-year-old RB ran all over us like he’s not good. Williams ran all over a lot of defenses last year. He’s still very good and Pittsburg has a good O-line. It was a complete team failure but you shouldn’t expect it to be that bad every week. There’s only a handful of truly great teams in the NFL (Denver, NE, Pittsburg, Seattle, Arizona, Carolina, and Minnesota. Then probably GB and KC too). We played one of those teams last night. They’re in a different class. It won’t be so bad when we play other teams. We’re still just starting year 2 of the rebuild. They will win at least 7, at most 9. That’s not terrible. But the most important thing is they keep building. Keep developing players, culture, and keep moving forward. That’s what this season is about.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 11:42 PM

          Yup. He’s right. And watch, if they win next week it will be all “we’re going to the Super Bowl!” I swear it seems like Washington fans shift their feeling about the team more than any other fan base. That’s probably not true, it’s probably the same everywhere, but holy crap relax people. It’s one game. I’ll ring the alarm if we still look this bad week 5. And even that might be a little soon.

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:05 PM

        Well said Lezzie. You’re exactly right.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:26 PM

          I mean don’t get me wrong I’m as pissed as the next fan about this bludgeoning but there is no need to be in full on panic. It was just one game right? As bad as a loss as it was I still can’t sit here and say “Oh Kirk is terrible, told y’all he didn’t deserve that money!” All we can do is wait and see if he comes out of it. If he does, GREAT let’s lock him up. If not, he’s eithr gonna have to come down off his list of demands, enjoy year two on the tag (which I don’t think Scot will do if he looks terrible, that’s just way too much guaranteed money to throw at a question mark) or take a hike. But it is entirely too early to be packing it in. Yes Ben is a rapist, but he’s still going to the HOF. AB is the league’s best wide out. Now I really want to see Cravens get some PT. I like him against the run I think he could’ve been a difference maker out there last night. He got one tackle that I saw, I’m not going to look up his stats cause then I’ll have to see the score again…, and his energy just him flying around Williams wouldn’t have had as many cracks at those second effort runs he was breaking off on us.


        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:35 PM

          Cravens was on the field a decent amount of time for a rookie in his first game. I want him on the field ASAP too but I thought he proved in the preseason he would need some time to develop. He was out of position a lot. Bites real hard on play action. But I love his potential and intensity. That kid will be a difference maker for us when he’s ready. And shoot, if we lose next week then we might as well just start him and get him some reps.

          I expected to lose last night. But I’ll be shocked if we don’t beat Dallas or at least play them a lot better. I think we split with Dallas but Dak wasn’t playing well Sunday. We should have this.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:44 PM

          I just checked their roster and I didn’t see AB so I think we’ll do alright. We’ve shut Dez down before with Bree. Hell Dak doesn’t even look Dez’s way so all we have to do is stop the… hmm.

  6. metalman5150 - Sep 13, 2016 at 4:54 PM

    26 Years and counting: Steelers win streak against the Skins.

    • snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:33 PM

      Speaking of 26. Cousins is 0 – 26 against teams with a winning record.

      • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:54 PM

        You win the stupidest comment of the day. He has played a total of 26 games, eight of them against winning teams. And he beat the Ravens in 2012 remember? So the real statistic is 1-7, not your absurd 0-26.

        • ET - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:07 PM

          “If I keep sayin’ it, it’s true!”

        • snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:52 PM

          Let me rephrase. In 26 games Cousins has never won a game against a winning team.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:58 PM

          When you say it like that, it sounds like he’s played against 26 teams with winning records. And you didn’t phrase it wrong the first time, you said 0-26 against winning teams.

          There just frankly aren’t that many teams with winning records every year. He’s only ever played 8. And, let’s be fair, QBs don’t win and lose games. Teams do. The Redskins lost those games, not Kirk Cousins. This has not been a very good team recently. Going 9-7 against teams under .500 is still a big accomplishment seeing as how the team only win 3 games in 2013 and 4 in 2014. That’s steady improvement and you have to keep things in context. Cousins isn’t playing with the Cardinals’ roster.

        • Skulb - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:08 PM

          Still stupid. It’s a team sport and no one can beat good teams without a defense.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 13, 2016 at 10:44 PM

          “Still stupid. It’s a team sport and no one can beat good teams without a defense.”

          I watched Peyton do it for years. It’s easier to win when the QB puts the team in position to score most drives. On drives where they don’t scre play the field pos battle. Everybody knows the saying… just that you have to remember the offense’s affect on the D. We don’t know how our D really looks because we’ve only seen them in one game and in that game they were gassed because we couldn’t keep our drives going. This isn’t basketball where you just gotta stay in front of somebody and put your hands up so they can’t shoot. These guys are basically running suicides every play and colliding with each other. Everyone knows running the ball is the easiest way to wear down a defense. The Steelers got a tired D and ran all over them. They knew we were tired of tackling by halftime. Came outta halftime and wen right back on D. If we stink next week then bring all this fervor. It’ll still be too early but at least there would be a pattern for decline. You can’t create a pattern with just one point on the graph.

        • Skulb - Sep 14, 2016 at 9:22 PM


          OK, so your solution to the QB problem is to draft Peyton Manning? You’ll forgive me if I make another attempt to live in the real world for a while longer. Truth is whatever people think about Cousins, most of which he managed to disprove last year already, the offense is what needs to carry this team. I mean, it’s not exactly a well kept secret that they ignored the defensive line almost entirely this offseason. And the problem with that is there is a small margin for error on offense. We HAVE to score first so teams don’t start running on us to kill time. And that was the problem in this game. The offense had a bad time and as a result we fell behind and the game was over. It essentially was over at 7-6 because of this dynamic. Once the Steelers started running we were dead. And now it’s the blueprint for the rest of the NFL, until we stop it.

  7. wncskinsfan - Sep 13, 2016 at 5:23 PM

    This article could very easily be called: “Redskins Gruden sees a real NFL Coach at work” What a disappointment, wasn’t expecting a win, but wasn’t expecting a drubbing and one of the bottom of the barrel performances this weekend. This team was not prepared. Not enough pre-season action for the starters, not enough discipline. Not enough work on glaring holes, like the run on both sides of the ball by Scot, either. It’s great that we have a salary cap nest egg, and a few sandbagged draft picks, too bad we didn’t address the needs in the trenches.

    I am glad that Scot M at least only tagged Cousins, and held off on a long term deal, that could prove to be his best move. I like and support Cousins, but he was not there last night. I hope he watched Big Ben, that is what a big dollar franchise QB looks like. His lack of accuracy was disturbing, and the play calling was about as vanilla as it gets. Safe, and vanilla, exactly how you don’t beat a team like the Steelers. Which takes me back to the coaching. Joe Barry, the king of vanillla. Those guys looked unprepared, and misused. And then just the same old thing, with no adjustments. Just like last year, looked just like the Packers game. Vanilla, vanilla, vanilla everywhere. Beyond the loss, it is just not fun to watch. Barry says that moving Norman around is too confusing for the other guys and their assignments . . . say what? These guys are pros . . . coach schemes to them so that a team can . . . adjust. They say (the sports talking heads) that the era of adjustments is done, that they don’t mean as much, well, sure could have used some. The Steelers adjusted to us. and easily got the win.

    Then it is more of the same from Gruden come press time. blah blah blah. I like the guy, but I am really starting to think he is coordinator material at best . . . maybe in some kind of league that doesn’t have RB, or FB. It is the same rhetoric every time.

    Love the Skins, 40 year fan native to DC, watched the game with friends and was embarrassed. It looked like HS vs. College both on the field and the sidelines, like the off season accounted for nothing. Watched the rest of the NFC East . . . based on what I saw last night, we are going to have trouble with those teams. Very disappointed, and not sure there is any relief in sight. HTTR, but that was a sh*t show.

    • snyderisanidiot - Sep 13, 2016 at 6:51 PM

      I should have been more reluctant to have hope in the team. I thought we had a pretty good squad. I am not going to lie, I did not think we were going to beat the Steelers but I thought we would be in it. I also thought there was a chance we could upset them especially at home where Cousins usually plays better.
      I think we are all shocked how flat they were. The Redskins were supposed to be better this year. A team you could say was heading in the right direction. As or right not, it looks like the holes on this team are larger than expected. And unless Gruden can right the ship quick this thing could get ugly.
      On the bright side Rg3 did not return to his original form or otherwise there could be some real questions right now.

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 13, 2016 at 7:04 PM

        You should have known better than to get too high in a team based off offseason hype. But you should also know better than to get too low on a team after a single game. Really man, it’s ridiculous.

    • Skulb - Sep 14, 2016 at 9:13 PM

      What really grinds my gears is that everyone on offense, except for Kirk who looked like he was still asleep, did pretty well. The line blocked well, the TEs blocked well, the receivers were good, Thompson was pretty good. Even Jones, who I am not exactly the greatest fan of, was alright. If it hadn’t been for a couple of odd calls from the sideline and the unacceptable amount of offensive penalties we might have scored one or two times in the first half and gone in with a decent lead. That is what should have happened.
      We don’t need Cousins to be Big Ben btw. We just need him to be competent and the offense around him will do the rest. The problem is that he was niot competent in the Pittsburgh game, and he needs to be better than this if he wants a job. But with the defense being as bad as this it doesn’t matter anyway. We can not win with this complete inability to stop the run. Even when we know it’s coming and we know who’s coming they went for seven yards.The priority list therefore needs to be to stop the run and then everything else, including changing Kirk into Ben using experimental genetics. Dallas watched this game too and they could easily run for 300 yards on us if we don’t do something to scheme up some form of run defense by Sunday.

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 15, 2016 at 1:30 AM

        Yeah. The play to beat Washington all season will be to run the ball. I see our entire team doing better than Monday, but I don’t see the run D doing that much better. Short of a blockbuster trade for Aaron Donald and Calais Campbell. Or unless Lanier suddenly turns into the next undrafted suler star and Hood finally figured out how to live up to where he was drafted. So, like I said, the run D will suck all year.

        There’s a couple ways to combat that. One being to get a really good run game ourselves so we can grind out just as long scoring dives as anyone else. Another, and more likely, way is that we play great pass defense while having a very potent passing attack ourselves. I think the pass defense is already in place and doing well. Smith needs to get a little meow consistent but the pass rush is adequate for the cover guys we have. I believe our receiving corps (including TEs) is also in place and doing well. There were a few drops but it was the first game and Cousins wasn’t exactly dropping dimes. That just leaves the QB.

        Cousins first and foremost has to be more accurate. Even if he checks down when the right play is to push it downfield, those passes need to be on the money so our receivers have a chance to make a play. We saw Reed get first downs even when he caught the ball 5 yards behind the line. Garcon is good at that too. But Cousins has to throw into them in stride so they have a chance. Then he has to do better making his reads or checking out of a bad play. People think a dump off is the right call vs. a 3 man rush and 8 man zone. How bout give it to the RB and let the 5 giant offensive linemen handle 3 linemen and some LBs in coverage. Punish the defense for only playing the pass, and then they might just stop with the 8 man zone and open up some passing lanes.

        I honestly believe Cousins (and just about everyone else) was rusty and maybe a little nervous. From what I understand they had a real relaxed camp and we know they didn’t get a ton of work in the preseason. Players are rusty week 1 anyway but that compounds it. Then, this team has a lot of pressure. Expectations are much higher and they were playing a legit SB contender in prime time. I think it got to them. Now hopefully they settle down and play like we know they can. Believe it or not there were positives to walk away that game with.

      • Trey Gregory - Sep 15, 2016 at 1:48 AM

        Since I keep saying there were positives, I’ll go ahead and share some off the top of my head.

        Norman looks as good as advertised. He was matched up with AB a few times and Ben only targeted them twice for 0 receptions and what I believe was a forced fumble.

        Breeland looked good despite all the hoopla. He was covering hands down the best WR in the league and he was with him step for step most of the time. Most QBs couldn’t drop balls that perfect into that tight of coverage. Hall is also to blame for some of it. But Breeland will be effective on most WRs if he plays like that. Just not the best QB/WR combo in the league.

        Reed looked great minus the one TD he should have come away with. He’s not hurt, that’s a big plus, and he made plays when Cousins got him the ball.

        The offseason hype about Desean wasn’t just hype. He looked better than I’ve personally ever seen him look. You all know I’m not his biggest fan, but he may change my mind this season. He looked great.

        Crowder looked great. He just didn’t get a lot of opportunities.

        I was really worried about Moses after preseason but I think he overall had a good game. I think the whole line did other than the penalties. And a hand full of plays.

        Kerrigan got a sack against a good offensive line. Say what you want about not having a pass rush. But if Kerrigan has that exact game every week he’s on his way to the pro bowl and a career year. When he pinned his ears back he put Pittsburg’s tackle on skates.

        Murphy actually got pressure in his limited time. There was one play where he was a half second from a sack but Ben, being Ben, was able to elude him. I saw one busted run play from Murphy but other than that I thought he looked better, more powerful.

        Smith got pressure and would have had 1 or 2 sacks against most QBs. I watched the NE vs. AZ game and noticed how easy Palmer goes down. If Smith does those things against a guy like Palmer, he too gets a sack. He’s young, and I have a couple criticisms of his game, but he overall was encouraging.

        Davis and Paul played well. Paul didn’t get a ton of action but Davis held up and had a great catch.

        Jones has his moments. Go back and watch the run with 7 min left in the 3rd. If that guy can find his way on the field more then we will have a good RB. He had some other decent runs too. It’s not all a lost cause with him.

        Thompson ran well in limited carries.

        I thought Baker looked like Baker (which isnangoos thing) other than a couple run plays where he seemed to get lost.

        And Hopkins was the man. Minus one return the whole ST unit had a decent game.

        It’s hard to evaluate much after a while because our defense was gassed and they knew which way the game was going. Can’t evaluate the offense if Cousins can’t move the ball. But he had a couple drives where you could see what’s coming once they settle down. My point is it wasn’t all bad. But we played a really good team with good depth. Then we ran into a buzz saw and I think they were just stunned. Maybe it will light a fire under their ass and they’ll shape up the next 15 games.

        • COSSkinsFan - Sep 15, 2016 at 9:51 AM

          All very good points, especially on Breeland. People have to understand there’s a difference between getting beat and getting burnt. For all the talk on having Norman follow AB I have faith in Breeland. He can handle O’Dell and Dez because he’said done it before. I’m not a fan of Barry and I think he should’ve moved Norman on AB after the half but we have 2 good corners. If it’s not discussed before halftime it may be a harder adjustment to make.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 15, 2016 at 2:59 PM

          It is a tough adjustment to make, especially for a player in his first ever game in a new system. But traveling corners also provide their own set of problems. It’s amazing to me that so many commentators, players, and former players are saying Norman should have followed AB without bringing up the downsides to making a corner travel. Especially in zone. They know the problems with it but they’re just trying to get their hot takes.

          Breeland is the best man coverage guy on the team. I love Norman but that’s not his strong suit. He doesn’t suck at it, but he’s not elite at it like he is zone. If anyone on our team should be in 1-on-1 man coverage vs. a #1 corner it’s Breeland.

          We have two very good corners and we should take advantage of that. It’s a luxury not many teams have. We also have a FS who is very good in coverage and should have been able to help Breeland but was out of position due to lack of experience (I assume). The. Phillips isn’t a half bad nickelback and Fuller is developing. We could have a very, very good defensive backfield later in the season or next year if Fuller becomes the guy McCloughan thinks he can become.

  8. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Sep 13, 2016 at 8:56 PM

    Watership Down: Zorn

    P.S. I post this for fun, I’m not going on suicide watch after the 1st game of the season. But if we lose to the cowboys….ZORN!

    • mtskins - Sep 13, 2016 at 9:12 PM

      Hah. I had to click on the link but before I did I thought you meant JIM ZORN! Actually respected it a lot because if you have remained a Skins fan since Synder took over you know it the situation could be a lot worse.

      There’s a lot of analysis but it was a bad game versus a good team. The expectations might have been set a little higher by some but there is a long ways to go. Archives

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