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Need to Know: Who has the upper hand in the Redskins’ left guard competition?

Aug 30, 2016, 5:56 AM EDT


Here is what you need to know on this Tuesday, August 30, four days before the Washington Redskins cut their roster to 53 players.


Today’s schedule: Practice 11:35; Jay Gruden news conference and player availability after practice approx. 1:00

—The Redskins last played a game that counted 233 days ago. It will be 13 days until they host the Steelers in their 2016 season opener.

Days until: Cowboys @ Redskins 19; Browns @ Redskins 33; Redskins @ Ravens 40

Some thoughts from Redskins Park

—I’m not sure if the Redskins are going to go after the recently released Pot Roast Knighton or not. But I do know that his departure was more a matter of performance than it was of money. They did make a late bid to keep him right before he signed with the Patriots but it wasn’t all that serious. I know that even after signing Cullen Jenkins they still could use help but in some cases you have to move on, not reach back.

—Jenkins is not a lock to make the roster but he is a solid favorite to stay around. He told me yesterday that being able to rush the passer is his main calling card and the Redskins can use that on the defensive line. Bottom line, I don’t think they sign him unless they intend to keep him. Barring a massive failure on his part I think he stays.

—Did Shawn Lauvao get the break he needed to secure the starting left guard job? Spencer Long has started all three preseason games so far and according to Gruden he was doing well. The competition for the starting job was still a coin flip per the head coach. But now Long is suffering from an ankle injury and Lauvao is getting all of the first-team reps. It’s not known how many days Long will have to spend on the sideline but it could well be long enough to give Lauvao a chance to lock the job down. Gruden said that he anticipates announcing who will start against the Steelers the Wednesday or Thursday before the game.

—Jay Gruden said yesterday that they are considering putting injured RB Keith Marshall on injured reserve. In fact, the decision may already have been made. Yesterday afternoon Gruden said that he, Scot McCloughan, and head trainer Larry Hess would talk about Marshall “in the next couple of hours”. Even if they have decided to put him on the shelf they likely will wait until after 4 p.m. today to do it. By waiting until after squads have been cut to 75 they will avoid the need to expose Marshall to waivers.

—Gruden said that regardless of what they do with Marshall they are not looking to add another running back right now. He said that Mack Brown and Robert Kelley would play against the Bucs on Thursday and they will take it from there. They still could claim a back if they see one they like on the waiver wire or sign a veteran before the season starts but for right now they are standing pat.

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In case you missed it 


  1. chimps000 - Aug 30, 2016 at 6:30 AM

    i assume skins are saying they aren’t looking for a RB so as to try and not overly tip their hand to the rest of the league…

    Would be very surprised if we don’t pick up another back before week 1.

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:22 PM

      What would they be tipping though? They wouldn’t say who they’re targeting. Just that they may sign a RB if they feel a better option has been cut. That’s true of just about every team at every position.

      • chimps000 - Aug 30, 2016 at 2:33 PM

        They may be trying not to tip another team who is also in the market for a RB cut from the waiver wire who are targetting one of the same backs the skins are- I could be wrong.

        Maybe they consider Matt Jones injury to heal quickly, and that they can go into week 1 with him, Kelly, and Thompson. I would prefer they pick up another back, whether a guy who clears waivers or a guy for whom they give up a low pick.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 2:57 PM

          Kelley has shown me enough where I don’t anticipate anyone being better if they’re cut. There could be a surprise, but I doubt it. I’ve gone down the list of likely cuts from most teams and they’re mostly just guys. Niles Davis is the only one I can think of who may be worth taking over Kelley, but even then…

          A trade would be more like it. But that’s another story. Maybe the Cowboys give up McFadden. But for what?

          As far as tipping the hand. If we know how desperate they are at RB, every other team does too. But everyone is always looking to upgrade talent. We’re happy with Kerrigan and Smith. But if Jouston Houston got cut, I guarantee Scot would give him a call. Along with 30 other teams. There’s also the waiver process. Nobody can come in and beat you to the punch. Say Washington and New England both want a RB who was cut. If he’s any good at all he’s probably going to a practice squad. So we’re not competing with New Englad. It’s just who has the highest waiver. And simply saying that we may be in the market for a RB is stating the obvious. They’re not saying who they want.

          For once, I think they might be telling the truth. Right now the plan is to stick with Kelley. But if a better option comes along, they will try and grab him.

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:15 PM


        • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 12:48 AM

          Eh. The thing about Sankey: he’s been a disappointment. He was a high round draft pick and now can’t even get the RB3 spot on one of the worst teams in the league? I don’t know.

          I haven’t exactly watched every snap all these guys have taken. I try to watch as many games as possible. But it’s not like the Titans have been in prime time. Obviously I’m watching the Redskins if they’re on, and usually Tennessee is on at he same time. If the Redskins have a prime time slot then I’m probably watching a better matchup than Tennessee vs. anyone. Of that list we talked about, I have watched every one of those guys play. Some more than others but most just in a fantasy football/Redzone type capacity. So it’s hard to say.

          But, really, why not Kelley? If we’re just talking guys likely to get cut, what have they really done that Kelley probably can’t? He did the most important thing and looked great in pass protection. Then he also looked patient, decisive, powerful, he ran hard, and he saw the holes. That’s the second most important thing to me. Vision to use his physical gifts. There are multiple undrafted free agents who play well every year. Usually because they went to small schools (he went to Tulane). He fits the mold of a guy who was passed over because of exposure and not because scouts didn’t like his tape. Again, I don’t think he’s going to set any rushing records, but I think he can be a good player for us.

  2. colorofmyskinz - Aug 30, 2016 at 6:46 AM

    The attempt at Stork and the acquisition of Jinkins is confirmation of what we have all known for a long time, we need to beef up the inside of the line on both offense and defense and have needed to do this for a long time. We now know that Scot and Gruden see what we see and unfortunately we are attempting to try to shore up those two areas of the line of scrimmage 2 weeks prior to the start of the season. I wish we had done this during FA. We could have easily picked up Alex Mack. There were many NT/DT options. We knew we did not have a run stopper in the middle of the DLine. Did they always know of these need like we did or are they just getting to that conclusion?

    • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 7:28 AM

      I think the Redskins were counting on Kouandjio, Long and Paea to step their game up and it just hasn’t happened; I say that with Long playing okay and learning center but not wrestling starting LG spot away from Lauvao. I think those were reasonable assumptions for the team to make heading into the offseason. The team has given everyone ample time — into the 3rd preseason game — to state their case, and as more players become available now with roster cuts, they’re bringing in players the team feels might help the club. Remember, the Redskins did sign / bring in Booth, Reyes, Hood and Ioannidis to compete; it’s not as if no moves were made.

      We’ve asked about NT ad nauseam and have been told they think Golston can fill that need for the 10-15 snaps per game; we’re told it is not a position they will use very much.

      I think all along the Redskins would have brought in a center at the right value level but did not want to reach for a center; still, I agree with you that it was odd the Redskins did not secure a UCFA center to training camp but at the same time five centers in camp would have been a lot; perhaps they tried to but were outbid. They had to give Reiter another look, and they needed to ensure Long progressed enough before cutting ties with LeRibeus. I can only assume that the Redskins did not value Mack at the price he wanted.

      I think the more damning decision was not bringing Alfred Morris back for at least a year but hopefully Kelley will make that thought seem ridiculous by the end of the season.

      • chimps000 - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:08 AM

        I think you are right that they expected a healthy lauvao and a healthy Lichtensteigher to be an improvement, maybe the problem was in expecting those guys to stay healthy. Clearly Scott whiffed on Paea (not an indictment for sensitive people, all GMs whiff) and the coaches obviously don’t value his play. True they brought in Reyes, Hood, Ionnidis, but lets be honest those were bottom of the heap guys and a low round draft pick, although apparently Hood is looking rejuvenated, and if he can stay healthy should be a real contributor.

        I agree that it looks weird to be still addressing the most glaring weaknesses of last year in the two weeks before the start of the season… LG and center, RB, and Dline. I wonder how those highly rated (by the media draftniks at least) DTs that the whole league passed on for several rounds will perform- we could use a young big boy at DE to hold the point and not get thrown around and let the LBs tackle the ball carriers. I didn’t like the Doctson pick, mainly because I subscribe to the theory that you have to get the big boys early, there are only so many huge athletic men on the planet, and every year there are a ton of talented pass catchers, but I would be happy to have that theory proven wrong in Doctson’s case.

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:55 AM

          Yeah Doctson is not the only rookie injured. Off the top of my head, I believe Ramsey, Lawson, Ragland, Rankins and Billings expect to be out 6-8 weeks at least. Kevin Dodd was on the PUP but I believe is off it now. Nkemdiche has a high ankle sprain.

          I believe A’shawn Robinson and Jarran Reed are healthy and doing well.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 1:28 PM

          Keanu Neal as well.

          I was so bummed for Billings that he broke his leg. Such a bad break. He’s a Good kid.

      • rtcwon - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:33 AM

        I think you have the mostly correct answer. NT & RB are not that important and they are fine with what they have there. Backup interior OL & DL rotation, they were expecting more from the in house options and have been disappointed. They like a healthy Kory but they may be finding out he isn’t as healthy as he may have lead them to believe. Jones not Mack was the only FA worth targeting there but again they like Kory and thought he was healthy.

        Why do you call undrafted free agents (UDFAs) UCFAs?

    • John - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:45 AM

      Jenkins is not, nor will he ever be a run stuffing nose guard. He is at his best as an inside pass rusher. He was the guy providing the push up the middle for the Packers during their Superbowl run. That being said, he is a rotational player. The Eagles paid him big money to start and that was an epic fail. He is most effective when coming in and rushing at DT on 2nd and 3rd down passing situations like a Perry Brooks or Jumpy Geathers.

      • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:42 PM

        Exactly…which says that the organization is more concerned with the tackles in nickle situations — both rushing the passer and stopping the run. I think they’re fine with what they have at nose. And when I mean fine, I mean if there isn’t an All-Pro talent available, get it done by committee. No need to pay a lot for potential Pro-Bowl alternate when the difference in production doesn’t merit the difference in cost.

        • ET - Aug 30, 2016 at 1:32 PM

          “No need to pay a lot for potential Pro-Bowl alternate when the difference in production doesn’t merit the difference in cost.”

          I believe that’s the key in this whole Nose Tackle Kerfluffle. The braintrust isn’t content with the performance at the position, but they’re also prioritizing needs. If an NT is realistically getting 10-15 snaps, that’s specialist territory. The defense as a whole is moving toward positional flexibility, so it’ll be interesting to see how this issue gets treated moving forward.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:05 PM

          I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about that? The priority of the position. Of course a pro bowl NT would be nice. Of course he would help us stop the run. Nobody is denying that. I would love a beast DT on this team. I was begging them to draft one this year. But a NT shouldn’t be the priority.

          I would MUCH rather have another stud OLB, upgrade at RT, better RDE, and better backup center (or potential starter). I that order. As in, guys who would play more snaps at positions of more importance.

          If they could find an Aaron Donald type DT who can pass rush and run stuff then great. But that would require a top pick, like the one we gave the Rams that they used to draft him. These guys aren’t on the street. It’s easy to say “we need this.” But tell us who they should target, keep it under the cap, and how are they going to make sure other positions aren’t neglected at the same time? It’s easy to say this stuff, harder to do.

        • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:20 PM

          Aaron Donald was the Rams’ own pick. They used “our” pick on a so far failure at LT — Greg Robinson.

          Upgrade at RT? Who saw that coming? Do back-up centers play snaps? Not usually and you’re not going to draft a project if you have two in the building already.

          As for DE or NT, some DTs can be ends and some can be play nose and DT in nickle. I have no problem with the football people making the decisions there and disagree with nitpicky uses of a 4th round pick. However, picking Scherff and realizing that guard is where he has to play when you could have a dominant 3-4 DE like Williams is likely to be a mistake. But once again that is a mistake that can be lived with. Choosing good over the best is a helluva lot better than choosing squat over good.

          But since you seem to be on your lets see behind Scot’s Wizard of Oz curtain crusade, here’s this nugget from Keim:

          “The Redskins first free-agent class under general manager Scot McCloughan has turned out to be a tough one, at least those acquired in the offseason. They’ve parted ways with several key players from that group in addition to Paea: nose tackle Terrance Knighton, corner Chris Culliver and safeties Jeron Johnson and Dashon Goldson (via trade). But they also added Foster, defensive back Will Blackmon and kicker Dustin Hopkins after the season began and all have become key contributors.”

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 3:41 AM

          Hm. Well I went back and read my comment twice and yours five times and I can’t seem to figure out what the disconnect is. But I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

          I was agreeing with what you said above, not criticizing anyone for the draft. My main point was that a better NT would be awesome, but it’s not high on the list of priorities because of the importance of the position. Like I said, if a pro bowl/generational type player is there then of course you take him. But there’s more pressing needs to fill in free agency and the draft. So I’m not going to get upset that they didn’t get one.

          You are correct about Donald. I was simply trying to say that it will probably require a top 10, maybe 5, pick to get a player like him (and the pick they got from us was). A massive run stuffing DT who can pass rush like a DE, or even play DE too, doesn’t come cheap.

          I wasn’t bringing up the 4th round of the draft at all. I was just saying that I wanted to upgrade at DT too. I don’t want people to think I’m saying this because I don’t value the position at all. I LOVE beasty DTs. But I like the Doctson, Cravens, and Fuller picks because they addressed more important positions. And probably BPA. I didn’t like the 4th round, but that’s another story and it’s not only because they didn’t draft a DT.

          As far as the positions I named: I sure as hell didn’t see the RT thing coming. Granted, I don’t get paid 6-7 figures to see these things coming with all access to the team. But I completely understand them not seeing it coming. I meant right now, not the draft or this past free agency. A couple people are making the same post every single day about how NT and C are by far the biggest needs on the team. And we should be out trying to find upgrades. I wholeheartedly disagree about the snow tackle, and partially about the C, and think we should focus on upgrades at other positions like RT if we’re going to be spending money or draft picks to acquire any position. But I doubt that happens.

          The Scherff pick is rough because he seems like an awesome guy, a potentially special guard, and I’m glad he’s on the team. I basically like everything about him. But, as a guard, he was definitely over drafted. Especially as a RG. If this were the Cowboys who drafted him #5 overall we would probably all be roasting them. And you know that’s true. But I’m not complaining about that. Never do. Scot swung for a RT, missed, but hit a potential pro bowl guard. I can live with that.

        • bangkokben - Aug 31, 2016 at 6:56 AM

          Yeah. I don’t like the tone of my last post. My bad.

          I think it may be too early to put RT on a need list but right now that looks like a distinct possibility.

          My issue with the NT/C priority folks is how much in a vacuum they are. Sure we could’ve had one or both but that would be without significant pieces on this team. Norman and Reed being locked up for instance. On the other hand, no wonder McC likes building through the draft if his free agent classes are typically like last year’s. Having said that, I don’t think his draft class or his free agent class from last year are likely to be typical. Probably miss more in the draft and hit more in FA.

          I agree with you about Scherff and I think Scot isn’t perfect. My issue with those that take shots at the GM are that they disagree with minutia and miss on the big items. There have been mistakes but unlike the guys before; the mistakes are fewer, of less degree, and they aren’t crippling.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 1:28 PM

          It’s all good man. We all do that from time to time (at least I do anyway).

          I agree with everything you said. And you know how I feel about most of this. But I’ll say one thing. Scot McCloughan has been the GM of this team for two offseasons now and I have exactly one real gripe with him (the 4th round). And even then, in 1-2 years I could change my mind and say that was a great move.

          I think that’s pretty awesome. Most GMs would be racking up a lot more mistakes. Now, Scot has made more than 1 mistake, but that doesn’t bother me. I may go back, with hind sight, and point out his mistakes to people who think he’s literally infallible but that doesn’t mean I hold them against him. Every GM has bad FA signings or misses on a draft pick. Because there dealing with humans. The GMs don’t know how the player will respond to a new team or transition from college to the pros. Sometimes it just doesn’t work.

          All I want people to see is that he makes mistakes just like everyone else and there’s nothing wrong with that. All he has to do is make less mistakes than most. The rest is on the coach. Some people have this other worldly image of Scot and I just think that’s a good way for fans to get let down and lose their patience. He wasn’t the GM in Seattle, he didn’t build that team alone, he’s going to hit some bumps while finding himself without the guidance of a really good coach and GM. And I’m fine with that. This team has turned a corner and I’m happy.

        • bangkokben - Aug 31, 2016 at 1:52 PM

          So you’re saying Jay Gruden isn’t a “really good” coach? Just messing with you but I do think Pete Carroll gets way too much credit when it comes to building that team and he walks the fine line of competitive and cheating.

          As for McCloughan, I hear you AND God forbid you say anything negative about Brandon Scherff — he’s not perfect and the guy he replaced is still starting in this league.

          I’m fine with Scherff but have noticed since last preseason that he is slow off the ball and I’m not sure if that can be fixed. What I mean by that is that his reaction to the snap count (which he knows) is slow. The average sprinter’s reaction time to the starting pistol is a 1/4 of a second. This is why when they time the 40, they go on first movement to measure speed without reaction time. Scherff is often slow and not the first to initiate contact. If he wasn’t so strong that would be a major problem. I haven’t seen as much of that this year but Cooley noticed it after the Falcon game and called him out on it. Finally, someone who saw the same thing I’ve been seeing. When I said this earlier in the off-season, what a reaction! Now, I wasn’t down with the pick when it happened but there is no changing it and I am good with last season’s results. And even though it is likely he missed on Leonard Williams there are more than one way to get to the Super Bowl.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 2:44 PM

          I know you were joking, but just for the record, I’m really happy with Gruden as the coach. He runs a very dynamic offense and deserves as much credit as McCloughan for this team’s turnaround.

          Scherff certainly isnt perfect, but I think he can overcome those decencies. I’ll pay attention to how quickly he gets off the ball this season. But he does make up for a lot by being an immovable object. His technique isn’t refined, and one it is, oh my goodness he’s going to toy with people. I love stout lines on both side of the ball. So it’s hard for me to be upset about drafting a nasty guard. It’s just that Williams is also a nasty player on the D-line. But whatever, spilt milk and all that. I honestly don’t even think about it unless someone brings it up.

          I have to disagree about Pete Carroll though. I think he’s an amazing head coach. But I’ve never heard anyone accuse him of cheating. Can you tell me what you mean?

          It’s not just Carroll either. Pete Carroll (head coach, John Schneider (GM), and Scot MCCloughan (Senior Personnel Executive) all got to Seattle in 2008 and rebuilt that team together. I’ve just noticed a lot of Redskins fans give Scot all the credit for building that team and that isn’t even remotely true. He played a big role, but the ultimate decesions if who to sign or draft came from Carroll and Schneider. Maybe Scot is going through some growing pains without his adult supervision? He only had 2 years GM experience before Washington.

          I used to think Carroll was overrated too. But I’ve gotten really into reading books about football the last year or so and so many of them give Carrol glowing reviews. They break down exactly what he did for that team, and how the current Seahawk’s team was his vision and the front office just helped find the guys. His defense is borderline revolutionary for its simplistic efficiency, he’s a great motivator, and he’s the architect of that team. His personality kind of drives me nuts, but I respect the hell out of him as a coach. Just like Gary Patterson and Chip Kelly. It takes a sadistic person to be that fat and demand your athletes eat percent diets and run all day ;) But damn, they can coach.

        • bangkokben - Aug 31, 2016 at 4:32 PM

          For the cheating reference, there that university in the southern part California. That might ring a bell. Then there are the SEVEN positive PED tests to players from 2011-2013 and lastly and most importantly is the two time violations of the CBA against having excessive contact during practice (OTAs I think). Once in 2012 and again in 2014. Here’s the synapsis from “Your Team Cheats dot com:”

          “Not learning from their 2012 version of this cheat, the Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll was fined $100,000 and the Seahawks were fined $200,000 and the team lost two double practices in 2015 for violating no-contact rules that govern NFL teams’ offseason practices.

          The Seahawks were fined an undisclosed amount in 2012 by Goodell for a similar violation under Carroll’s supervision and lost their final two organized team activities practices. The 2011 collective bargaining agreement bans physical contact between players during the offseason.”

        • bangkokben - Aug 31, 2016 at 5:25 PM

          As for the risk management of the team, I’d do just about everything Gruden has done. You have to manage players, not units. You also have to manage the situation and that changes. So it isn’t about the starters as much as it’s about individuals. You have guys that give maximum effort and guys who get by with minimal effort. You have guys with experience and guys without. You’ve got guys that know the playbook well and the opposite.

          You can reward the max effort guys if you want but more importantly you HAVE TO protect them from themselves and the team from them occasionally. There’s no need to burn out in practice but there will be times when you will need their intensity too.

          I’d have done the same thing with Doctson but I had that “injury” my junior year in high school. One of the coaches said it looked like I was constipated when I ran. I got my ankles taped to his suggestion, practiced through it, and fortunately for me; it cleared up in less than a week but for three days it was excruciating and I couldn’t have endured it any longer without the tape jobs.Same position too. Maybe that was stupid 25 years ago. Point is, I’d have pushed him returning earlier had there been different personnel here and the team was depending on him more.

          With guys like Trent Williams, you know what you have and anything like an injury you shut him down — especially if you know you can get him ready in the two weeks before the season starts. The same with Kerrigan. The same may be true for Jackson and Reed. Now if there isn’t anything physical no need to act like there is.

          So to answer your specific questions:
          No pre season? No. You need that for the majority of your team to find out who is on your roster — not for your core guys.

          Hold the starters out of all preseason? Nope. Tradition is fine but the trend for less than traditional will become the new normal.

          Have them only play a quarter? A quarter in the first or second game but this totally depends on your players. I would’ve liked Griffin when he was here to get more reps in the preseason. Therefore the starters would’ve played longer and he needed the reps making the change to a drop back QB so he’d stay in with the twos for a series or two as well.

          Hold starters out of practice? Only two days a week? No one is even suggesting that or coming close but isn’t Doctson being held out of practice? If healthy, practice.

          No contact in practice? There has to be contact in practice. What most fans don’t realize is that there is a lot of “contact” in OTAs but this is without pads. You can only go full contact so many times throughout the year including training camp so this will depend on the health, age, and experience of the team.

          What would be the ideal solution to you? This is going to depend on the circumstances of your team. If you’re rebuilding from 3-13 and a first year coach, you can have a more physically demanding camp then if you’re coming off a division title and you have expectations to build off that. You have to have everyone know the playbook, be able to execute the playbook, and be physically ready to execute at a consistently high level — that includes combat ready not just theoretically. For most vets that’s going to be a half of football. Young guys and those without much experience are going to need double. Everyone who is expected to serve in a depth role is going to need to get two games worth of experience.

  3. redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 7:03 AM

    What about the Redskins signing Vinston Painter? Do you think he is kept too like Jenkins?

    If Lauvao is healthy, I think he has had the upper hand to start but the Redskins are just trying to use this as a way to get the best out of both players. I think you operate that way for each position where the competition levels are relatively close, at least I would.

    Rich, besides OL, DL, and RB, are there any other positions where the Redskins might bring a player in (e.g., OLB) or would such a decision only be made based on additional injuries suffered (beyond the current status)?

    Five more players will be released today, expecting someone on DL, OL, WR, possibly Riley and Paulsen too. Ugh, I hate to see Paulsen go. Decisions to release today are partially dependent on players needed to play final game on Thursday night.

    • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 9:14 AM

      Correction, game is now Wednesday night.

    • renhoekk2 - Aug 30, 2016 at 9:37 AM

      I think with Long injured they did want to risk playing Lauvao in the last game and getting him injured as well. They needed another body for the last game. I don’t expect Painter to make the team. I don’t know if he’s even played a snap in the NFL.

      • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:19 AM

        I don’t think they are bringing Painter in just for the fourth pre-season game; they still have Josh LeRibeus and Nila Kasitati to play both guard spots. Also, the Redskins could have opted not to cut Cody Booth if they wanted a third player to play guard…

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:47 AM

          To clarify, Painter may play guard tomorrow and then get released but that would be because they didn’t like the way he has performed, not because the Redskins needed an extra body just for the game.

        • Mr.moneylover - Aug 30, 2016 at 11:03 AM

          They claim painter because they fill he could be better then what they got…jay gruden said with spencer long ankle injury painter could be the one backing up lauvao week 1 so many players on the O-line regress this off-season they gonna be looking to upgrade every postion showing weakness

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 11:13 AM

          Shows how far Kouandjio has fallen… from up and coming starter …. to can’t find someone else fast enough to fill in depth chart behind Long

        • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:46 PM

          I think it’s more like this guy may have a shot on the practice squad while we know certain guys are not only going to make the team but they’re not worth developing any further.

  4. garg8050 - Aug 30, 2016 at 7:53 AM

    After seeing #78 this past week and the failed acquisition of Stork, I’m expecting to see Long at center at some point this season with Lauvao starting at LG.

    Jenkins signing is pretty much the end of Paea.

  5. rtcwon - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:48 AM

    – Pot Roast not coming back, NT is a non-issue
    – Sure seems like it is Jenkins or Paea for 6th DL with the rookie kept too
    – A healthy Lauvao is better than a healthy Long at LG. An injured Lauvao is better than an injured Long. But at least Long has finally played well enough at C to replace the Ruby.
    – Can’t imagine them getting away with IRing Marshall with 3 week injury when rules mandate minimum 6 week injury for IR. But non-issue as no one will claim him.
    – I would be more surprised if they signed another RB than if they don’t. If they do, it will be a young kid, not a vet. Trey Williams & Lache Seastrunk both didn’t make first cuts…just saying…RB signing ain’t going happen.

    • rtcwon - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:54 AM

      ***the Rib not Ruby. You know, the guy who tried to eat himself out of the league, then found a way to make his horrible blocking only the third worse thing about his game since he couldn’t get the snap count or location right.

      • ET - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:06 PM

        Oh, we all know who you meant. Hopefully this is the year LeRibster gets the ol’ heave-ho.

  6. celeoinc - Aug 30, 2016 at 9:19 AM

    How about going after Paul Kruger as a third down pass rusher only?

    • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:21 AM

      He’s going to tryout at Saints and Chiefs; don’t know if he will visit other teams afterwards.

      • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:27 PM

        I’m sure he would come visit us too if we called. Us not pursuing him really blows my mind.

        • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:52 PM

          He’s actually a better run stopper than a pass rusher at this point but still better than Bates in either category. Probably still available after cuts and if not, cross your fingers and hope that you don’t have use Bates.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:27 PM

          Unrelated but I’m going to take a quick jab at Romo. Prescott isn’t giving that job back and everyone seems excited to have him at the helm. I’m even a little concerned because there goes our guaranteed 2 INTS and 2 fumbles. IDK I just think if Tony was so great there wou;dn’t be so much fanfare for the unproven guy behind him.

          I came looking for you just to tell you I basically drafted the entire Redskins team so how is that for a vote of confidence in Mr. Cousins? Reed, Jackson, Crowder, got our D.. I even drafted Kirk. My league lets us play an OP instead of a Flex so I’ll probably go Aaron Rodgers, Kirk, Reed, Jackson, Crowder, Jamaal Charles, Rawls and I’m starting the Seahawks D over our D.

        • Trey Gregory - Sep 1, 2016 at 3:51 AM

          Well at least you’ve confirmed what we all already knew: you’re insane ;)

          I generally avoid Redskins in fantasy because I see them with rose colored glasses and I can be unbiased about the rest of the league (except maybe RG3 and other former Baylor players). But I’m especially avoiding them this year. Too many mouths to feed. I guarantee Crowder will get 20 points one week and then 2 the next. Reed will probably still get his fair share but I’m sure he will go too high for my taste. And you can’t trust any of the RBs.

          Cousins is probably going to be my backup plan because I don’t like taking QBs early. I got Brady in the 6th last year. But if something like that doesn’t happen again then I’ll roll with him.

          We know how each other stand on Romo. But I have to disagree with you there. I like Dak. I loved his leadership, talent, and on-field presence in college. But I believe all this hype is going to come crashing down come the regular season. He’s been wildly innacurate with his passes. It just so happens he has an all pro WR, TE, and stud run game to lean on against defenses who aren’t really planning for him. I hope he has a good career. But I don’t see it in 2016. He’s still a rookie with a lot to learn. It could get ugly he has to actually diagnose a defense. Which is normal for most rookies. And he’s really just looked OK in the preseason. Not great.

          The worst thing for that team, and best for us, was Romo going down. He doesn’t literally throw 2 INTs a game and the last time he played more than a couple of games he was a top 5 QB. Maybe Dak becomes better than Romo someday, but he’s not right now. And there’s really no question about it.

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 1, 2016 at 5:00 PM

          “We know how each other stand on Romo. But I have to disagree with you there. I like Dak. I loved his leadership, talent, and on-field presence in college. But I believe all this hype is going to come crashing down come the regular season.” Wait wait wait… I didn’t say that Dak was the savior. I just said if Tony is so elite and so great why would there be ANY fanfare when he goes down? I agree Dak is having a good preseaon but hell so would I playing against vanilla D. I am glad people are backing off this “best o line in the league” stance. How does Romo keep getting hurt if that’s the case?

          As far as fantasy everyone has their own strategies. I’ve never not won a fantasy league 3-0. I tend to stay away from the Skins too (mainly because we didn’t have the type of talent, besides Morris maybe, to draft. We JUST started scoring over 20 pts) but Reed is the number 2 TE in the league, he just HAPPENS to play for the skins. Jackson is owned in 99% of leagues so that’s a no brainer. I gambled on Cousins (owned by 97% of the league) but I have Rodgers and Osweiler. I only plan on using Osweiler week 4 because ARod has a bye and the Texans play Tenn at home. That should be a favorable matchup but if Osweiler gets off to a slow start I might drop him. The jury is still out on Cousins but I believe as a second QB this move was very little risk. Really the only dark horse I drafted was Crowder he’s owned by 2.7% of leagues so maybe that’s insane. No more insane than drafting players for a pretend game anyway right?

        • lezziemcdykerson - Sep 1, 2016 at 5:40 PM

          And also Romo is a slumlord. If his career is over what will be the excuse now? “Oh well he COULD’VE won playoff games if he wasn’t hurt” Hmmm I remember a certain someone telling me that Romo’s injuries are a recent development that shouldn’t last. This is like the 3rd time he broke his back relatively speaking… that’s alot. NFL terms 3 injuries over a double digit career isn’t bad… oh wait he did have collarbone issues. Oh wait he did play through injuries ALL OF HIS CAREER which is probably why his body is giving out on him now.

          2-6 in the playoffs (one of the games he personally gave away.. that’s my QB) sure sounds like HOF numbers though. He’s the king of meaningless stats, QB’s are measured on wins/losses and postseaon success not passer rating and passing yds. Cam went to the SB with my mom and dad at receiver. Tom Brady went to the AFC championship game with… I don’t even know. I’m sure Gronk is their leading receiver because I can’t name another one. Ameendola still there and healthy? The Chiefs don’t have the most prolific passing attack. So don’t give me the the talent around him was subpar excuse. Carolina had an exceptional D and the Chiefs are up there as well but the Pats were kinda avg when you lok at their D vs Opp D.

  7. celeoinc - Aug 30, 2016 at 9:21 AM

    I believe we have a serious problem at Center no matter who you put in there. My hope is that Long can come along.

    • Mr.moneylover - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:58 AM

      Trust me they havent gave up on looking…Scot M. Just not gonna bring in any player at center it gotta be a good fit and the player gotta be available for trade

      • Mr.moneylover - Aug 30, 2016 at 11:07 AM

        Bryan Stork was known to be a mean nasty O-line player thats the type of players they target to bring in …it’s the new redskins Motto

  8. abanig - Aug 30, 2016 at 9:24 AM

    It’s a no brainier to go with Lauvao over Spencer Long at this point at LG. I’ve closely watched Long this preseason, and last season and even rewatched some of the games I had DVR’d from last season and this preseason over the weekend paying special attention to interior OL play.

    Yes, Kory L is an issue and if we can upgrade him via trade or signing another center like John Sullivan of the Vikings or Patrick Lewis of the Seahawks we should.

    That being said since the minute Long took over for Lauvao at LG last year until now, he’s been a major disappointment, even more of a disappointment than Kory L has been. At least Kory L has the nerve damage in his shoulder/neck area which caused weakness last year and may still be a problem this year excuse, Spencer Long has no excuse.

    Long is 6,4, 324 pounds. He has bad technique and most of the time plays soft. I’ve seen him get pushed back on running plays and passing plays as much as Kory or more and he outweighs Kory by 30 pounds.

    There is no excuse for how poorly Long has played for us the past year given his size. The stats also back up that Long is soft because the minute he took over for Lauvao our running backs lost about a yard per carry because their best runs in week 1, 2 and the first half of week 3 last year were almost all off the left side behind Lauvao and Twill.

    Then, obviously when LeRibeus took over for Kory when Kory went to IR in week 6 our running game lost about another yard per carry for the rest of the year.

    Spencer Long is a major problem on our OL IMO and it’d be foolish to not start Shawn Lauvao over him, at least Lauvao is an established veteran who is strong at the point go attack in the run game, that is certainly not something I see often out of Spencer Long at this point in his development.

    Lastly, I think I’ve said this before in Rich’s comments, but when Jeff Bostic was at Redskins training camp this year he said the Redskins offensive guard play was soft to Chris Cooley, I believe this was before Lauvao came off PUP or maybe just as he was coming off PUP. My guess is that mainly, Bostic was talking about Spencer Long’s play.

    I do not know that for sure though.

    • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 11:10 AM

      I thought Cooley’s comments were directed at Long, Scherff (yes even Scherff), Kouandjio and maybe even Lauvao.

      Reyes is another player who has received wide ranging comments. The coaching staff has issued effusive praise to the former Charger while Cooley feels that Reyes is a complete failure. The coaches have been so positive the last couple of weeks that I took Reyes off my roster “watch list” to consider that he has a secure spot. Cooley feels Reyes is incapable of shedding any block to the point that it’s unconscionable for a NFL d-lineman. Have any of you watched film on Reyes and have an opinion? Can Reyes challenge for a starting spot? Is Reyes this year’s Paea? Should we cut bait with Reyes if we can find another Cullen Jenkins or even go with Lanier instead although Lanier is too raw for NFL now?

      • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:56 PM

        Reyes HAS looked horrible. He’s only on a one-year deal so the dead money would be less than Paea who I presumed has already been cut.

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 2:09 PM

          It’s funny that the “marquee DL” signings for past couple of years (Paea and Reyes) are not panning out but one of the other ones (RJF and Hood) are working out.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:16 PM

          And Knighton

          I love RJF though. I hope he gets a chance to start.

        • ET - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:17 PM

          Is Reyes a marquee signing? I’d say he’s a 2nd-3rd tier signing. His performance has been disappointing, sure, but Reyes was never going to walk into Ashburn as a disruptive player. Paea, what happened to that guy? His potential has all but disappeared—and I’m not clear why. Poor scheme fit? Lack of motivation?

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 5:59 PM

          That’s why I put “marquee” in quotes — it was meant as billed among the players the Redskins signed.

      • abanig - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM

        I can’t believe Paea was cut in favor of Reyes. Cooley hasn’t liked the film he’s seen of Reyes the past two years. He said Reyes plays too high in the run game and he just gets bowled over and I’ve seen that this preseason also. A lot of the big runs we’ve given up have been on Reyes’ side. Reyes does present some pass rush ability though. Still, Paea to me the better player and Paea was playing at least average last year before he injured his back and then his toe.

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:42 PM

          What do you think the team sees in Reyes?

        • abanig - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:13 PM

          One thing, Joe Barry was on the Chargers defensive staff when he was drafted and in his first two years Reyes had 5 and 5.5 sacks but he’s regressed since then.

          The guy that produced his first two years and flashed is still in there, they just have to get it out of him. I did see Reyes flash some good pass rush and get pressures this preseason but Cooley is rights he sucks balls against the run!

        • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:44 PM

          Reyes has to be Joe Barry’s guy and is getting every benefit of the doubt. Doesn’t mean he makes the team but he probably does.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 1:05 AM

          Has to be. He’s had some OK moments in the preseason (I mostly remember them against the Falcons), but he’s had some bad moments too.

          Maybe they’re just trying to roll over as much cap room as possible to pay Cousins and retain our other free agents. Which I’m honestly fine with. I don’t mean this in a negative way, but I don’t think his roster is quite ready to make a real push. The turnaround has frankly been remarkable but even Scot has his limitations. May as well just focus on the players we really want and develop young talent. Even if Reyes is worse than Paea. He’s cheaper and we can get rid of him if we need to as well. I would love to have an honest conversation with McCloughan about his plan/vision for the team and reasons for some of these moves. Bet it would be pretty eye opening.

      • abanig - Aug 30, 2016 at 8:25 PM

        Quinton Coples was cut, he was a former Jets 1st round pick from a few years ago.

        He’s 6’6, 290 and was the Jets starting ROLB two and three years ago when Rex was still there.

        To me, I’d rather have Coples as our #3 OLB and someone we can use with his hand in the dirt when we go nickel & dime rather than Murphy. Murphy would then become our 4th OLB.

  9. Mr.moneylover - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:42 AM

    I think Kendrick gholston might be in trouble to keeping his NT job as well not just Stephen Paea …when jay gruden said he can play NT as well I said hmmm well that postion is the weakness of the D-line so they might plug him in there at NT once he learn the system…Kendall Reyes havent really flash either so guys like Lanier,Jarrell Powe etc…will have a chance to make the team if they play well tomorrow night

    • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 11:23 AM

      I don’t think Golston is in trouble; Jenkins would just be a player who could fill in at NT if needed besides Baker. The Redskins like linemen depth that can effectively play multiple positions — it gives the team flexibility and allows the team to potentially roster one less lineman without sacrificing quality.

      I would be shocked if Powe made the team, just because we’ve heard so little about him and he hasn’t gotten reps against the first string. In fact, I believe Powe is behind Ioannidis in the depth chart and that’s not a good thing.

      • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 1:09 PM

        Powe was out with heart arrhythmia and had surgery. Good luck to him.

    • John - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:41 PM

      Gholston will be there. He’s a survivor. He’s not the best option, but if you rotate him with Hood and Ionitis, he’ll be fine. They never said they expected him to be the next Casey Hampton, BJ Raji or Dontari Poe. The practice squad wannabes like Powe and Jensen are what they are, final cuts.

  10. John - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:52 AM

    Long and Kouanjo are slow. I mean really slow. Molasses in January slow. A guy playing guard can be as big as a house but a guard still has to have quick feet to pull or get out to the second level. Last year Keuchly blew by him many times on run plays. God help us if teams start using A Gap blitzes on the Skins.

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:30 PM

      Moses is slow too.

      • John - Aug 30, 2016 at 12:34 PM

        Moses at least has demonstrated that he is capable of playing at a high level. Can’t say the same for Long or Kouanjo.

  11. Mr.moneylover - Aug 30, 2016 at 10:54 AM

    A trade for a center could be still in play I doubt they gave up on fixing that postion they wanna wait and see who gonna be release first if its nobody they like a trade is very possible…and painter was claim on waivers by the redskins because they have doubt that spencer long will be available to practice leading up to week 1 so painter will end up bein lauvao backup come week 1 …plus I really think redskins not happy with his play or Kory L.

  12. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 30, 2016 at 1:36 PM

    So Perry and Paea are both gone.

    • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 2:58 PM

      So much for the argument that they provide depth. Sure hope that their “depth” replacements are up for the job.

      • Trey Gregory - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:15 PM

        I find it unbelievable that Paea wasn’t good enough to make the team. What an amazing decline. But it’s good. This team is cutting people, regardless of their history. if they’re not good enough to make the team.

        • bangkokben - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:23 PM

          Biggest surprise for me too. It’s not like Ionnidis, Crawford, and Lanier have been tearing it up or that Reyes and Golston have been proving that depth is deep. Puzzling. Seems like money is a huge factor.

        • redskins12thman - Aug 30, 2016 at 3:52 PM

          These are the roster decisions that involve multiple considerations:

          – value (these players may be better but how much better; are they worth what they cost?) – I think Paea was not delivering in ways that perplexed everyone and the Redskins were even willing to take the dead cap hit

          – one trick pony vs. players with more versatility (e.g., special teams contributions, etc.) – I think the fact that Riley was mainly doing well on pass plays (and not run plays) really hurt him

          – turning a blind eye to the potential for injuries (e.g., while an injury could happen anytime / anywhere, team not overly concerned about Foster staying healthy)

          – pleasant growth / progress by teammates (e.g., Spaight, Cravens, Hood) – I think this also impacted Riley and Paea

          – invest in younger / less expensive players if vet / more expensive players are not standing out; when the above are taken into account, Riley and Paea “lose” on a tie

        • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM

          Age is big.

          Let the younger guys prove what they can do and don’t tie up cap on guys who aren’t going to be key to the team’s future.

    • goback2rfk - Aug 30, 2016 at 7:00 PM

      Good, I wish the nothing but the best for them. Paea was a disgrace, a huge disappointment, I am surprised he was not cut before training camp.
      Riley was a bit of a surprise because the depth at the LB position is not great but when it comes down to it he pretty much sucks. I will never forget the dude lined up on Mike Evans. LoL.

  13. goback2rfk - Aug 30, 2016 at 6:56 PM

    Stephen Paea, No surprise there. Was a Huge Disappointment and one of the very few mistakes the GM has made.
    Riley, well I guess they feel there are greener pastures elsewhere. I figured they would keep him around but I understand the decision completely.

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 31, 2016 at 12:57 AM

      One of the very few mistakes? Jeron Johnson, Chris Culliver, Pot Roast, and Goldson are all gone too. That’s 5 guys (including Paea) from just one free agency class. And that’s not even including draft picks. Jones could very well end up being a bust. I won’t count the later round guys, but let’s not sugar coat this. We still have Reyes, Bruton, and Garvin who could end up as “mistakes.” Depending on how Scherff ends up, drafting a guard that high could be considered a pretty big mistake. We won’t know for probably 3-4 years but Ioannidis and Kouandjo have all the makings of bad picks. We’ll see how the Cousins contract works out. Five free agents from one class didn’t last more than a season and there’s multiple other potential bad calls on the horizon (in only year two) and Paea is one of the “very few mistake.” Interesting.

      • chimps000 - Aug 31, 2016 at 8:30 AM

        I mostly agree with you- but to be fair, culliver looked decent before he suffered his second career ending injury (like galette), goldson was serviceable and not as bad as the other free agents that you mentioned, he just wasn’t worth his contract. The other free agents who didn’t work out were mostly cheap, except for paea who was a total whiff.

        I wasn’t a fan of the sherff pick at the time, looked like a reach to me, I preferred Leonard williams but thought scott shied away from his supposed injury history. This past draft I would have liked ashawn robinson or he other big boy whose name escapes me to play DE for us in the 3-4 when clearly run defense was a huge need…

        I was strongly against the Kendall fuller pick, guy had microfracture surgery, didn’t look good when he came back from surgery in college, 3rd round too high to use to take a flyer on a guy- I also think the jaylon smith pick by the Cowboys was stupid, 2nd round too high for such a risk. Lower rounds im fine with taking those kind of risks…

        Hopefully scott was right on sherff, doctson, and fuller and I am wrong. Archives

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