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Need to Know: Redskins’ O-line may need some time to gel

Aug 26, 2015, 5:32 AM EDT

Here is what you need to know on this Wednesday, August 24, three days before the Washington Redskins play the Baltimore Ravens.

Question of the day

Today’s question is from the Real Redskins Facebook page:

source:

Although I cautioned people about overreacting to 16 bad snaps by the offense I do think that the rough performance by the offensive line does deserve some scrutiny. When a quarterback gets hit six times in eight dropbacks, there is cause for concern. So let’s take a look at the line and how good (or bad) it might be in 2015.

Willie Smith won’t be the left tackle when the season starts on September 13. He may not even be on the 53-man roster. But the chances are that Trent Williams will miss a game or two. The Redskins need to have a good backup plan in place. My guess is that they would move Morgan Moses over from the right side to the left and insert Tom Compton in Moses’ spot. It’s not an ideal solution but very few NFL teams would be able to get along without their starting left tackles without missing a beat. A lot of fans are saying they need to improve their depth at LT but that is easier said than done.

The right side had issues, too, particularly right guard Brandon Scherff. There are high hopes for Scherff and they probably will come to fruition but he’s not there yet. He could well struggle for a few weeks or a couple of months before finding his stride. The problem with him, as with many dominant college linemen, is that his instincts are still set to be able to physically dominate the player in front of him. In the Big 10, he could do that. In the NFL, he can’t. He needs to master techniques, leverage, and the like. Bill Callahan will work overtime with him to make sure that he does. It will take time, however, and there may be some more struggles in the meantime.

Moses may be further along that Scherff in some ways but he needs some seasoning as well. Don’t forget that he missed the entire offseason program while rehabbing a foot injury so he had a lot of catching up to do.

Bottom line, Randy, I’m not sure what you mean by “as advertised” but the “Hogs” hype is not based in reality. They could be pretty good, perhaps very good. But it won’t happen immediately. The until will take some time to gel.

To give a quick answer to your second question, it’s wait and see. Morris is a favorite of Jay Gruden’s, who loves his work ethic, durability and production. But that doesn’t make it a lock that he’ll stay. We have to see how he performs this year, and if Jones and Thompson can stay on the field all year. If I have to guess right now I’d say Morris will be back but I’d just put the odds at 55 percent stays, 45 percent goes. There are just too many variables and too much that can happen between now and the end of the year to get a firm handle on it.

Timeline

Today’s schedule: Practice 11:45 a.m.; player availability and Jay Gruden news conference after practice (approx. 1:45)

—It’s been 241 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be 18 days until they play the Dolphins at FedEx Field.

Days until: Preseason Redskins @ Ravens 3; final cuts 10; Redskins @ Giants Thursday night 29

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112 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. sidepull - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:03 AM

    I think one of the earlier statements made coming out of the Redskins front office and Scot eluded to the idea that this whole process of changing the identity and culture of he team is going to require patience. I don’t care what position Brandon Shereff plays as long as he plays it well. I mean we have been patient for so long waiting on a winner, that there is no point in getting all over these players because its a shift for the as well. It is gong to take time. Callahan is good coach. That line may be good next year and take this season to gel. For now improved QB play, I think, will make the Oline look better.

    .

    • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:04 AM

      Improved QB play always makes a line look better. The problem is that Griffin needs more time in order to develop. Everyone hates this fact and it’s not a point to find fault. Simply put, if Griffin is going to be the quarterback he’s going to need at least a quarter second more time than last year’s line provided him. If they provide him that, then you can tell if he can improve from there. Griffin is a lot like Freddy Adu the soccer phenom. Adu’s individual talent was so advanced in individual skills folks assumed he had mastered team concepts that come naturally to every player in adolescence. Wrong. He therefore had major gaps in his game that he never overcame. Griffin at this point is the same way when it comes to quarterbacking from the pocket. In order to see if Griffin can improve these areas, he’s going to need a line that gives him more time than the average NFL QB.

      • skinsgame - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM

        This is where him learning to slide a little, side to side, would help him. Often he could create a little more time on his own by moving his feet.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:54 PM

          Yep. No evidence of that Thursday which is why Griffin is under fire. If the sacks, hits, and incompletions happen concurrently with signs of moving in the right direction within the pocket, there would be overwhelming vindication from everyone. There would be film breakdowns of how he’s improved in the pocket and how Griffin makes the right decision but how the line failed him. Instead, it’s who was worse the line or the quarterback.

    • brucefan1 - Aug 26, 2015 at 3:51 PM

      Shoot, I always thought it went to OTHER way around; that good line play in necessary to have a good pass game, especially when their QB is getting swarmed under in two seconds.

      At least that seems that rule of thumb applies in MOST cases, to MOST teams, for MOST quarterbacks.

      (Hey, off-topic here, but I JUST logged onto the WWW; what’s this I headline I caught glimpse of about some other team’s coach claiming that Gruden’s treatment of Griffin being a personal attack? Anybody else see that?! If that was what I saw, it’s gotta be one of those anonymous, unsubstantiated attacks to that so annoy me. Who would ever put their name to such an accusation? I hope it will be refuted immediately.)

      • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 4:47 PM

        Yeah unnamed source attack, did Jason Reid report on it?

        He hates the Redskins

        • brucefan1 - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:17 PM

          Unnamed sources?! Ugh!

          Could be very well made up out of whole cloth.

          It’s reprehensible to suggest thay ANY coach would harm any QBs chances because of personal animosity!

          I hope every coach or owner in the NFL takes a moment to repudiate this rumor, and goes on the record as to it not being anything emanating from THEIR team.

          Jay can’t be left out twisting in the wind, under this ominous cloud. He must be defended — especially by Griffin.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:33 PM

          Freeman from the Bleacher Report claiming an unnamed current head coach as the source.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 8:49 PM

          Same difference. Freeman is just a shit sturer

        • brucefan1 - Aug 27, 2015 at 12:49 AM

          Fwiw, here’s that video story — for those who can stand it:

          http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13517697

      • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:50 PM

        The usual inaccuracies I see. It was not under two seconds. It was precisely two seconds; I timed the hits and so should you next time. Enough time to react and sidestep/drop back to evade the pressure, which a good QB would do anyway. Bang said it perfectly above: by not reacting appropriately to the pressure Griffin takes well deserved criticism. Instead of the blame going entirely on the line, like you and Tim are pretending it is here, it goes on both the line and Griffin.

        • brucefan1 - Aug 27, 2015 at 12:24 AM

          Seeing how yer timing things, how many times during that game did Colt or Kirk have to work within those “PRECISELY” two seconds — which the starting o-line so generously afforded Griffin — before THEY had to get rid of the ball, or run for their lives?

          Silly me, I neglected to check the time those others had to throw, but it sure seemed like a lot more than the two seconds you report Griffin had. Tell ya what tho, I can’t believe either of them would have succeeded in the same peril in which Griffin was put.

          Obviously, the Skins shot-callers think so too, cuz he’s gonna be out there again this weekend. (And unlike some reports online, I don’t think Gru is putting Griffin out there to get him killed) Ultimately, I’m going to trust McC’s, Gru’s, Allen’s, etc. decision — whatever that is. (Stupid brucefan, right?)

          What else can any of us do? Besides kvetch, that is?

          But then, kvetching seems to be one of our favorite national pastimes!

  2. abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:14 AM

    I also cautioned many on this. Just because the Redskins were going to be starting two new young offensive linemen this season didn’t mean that the line was automatically going to be better than the last two years or the Hogs2.0 in the first half of the 2015 season.

    Fans really have to learn how to be patient in young developing players. Young players are going to have their ups and downs – mostly downs – as rookies and second year players but by year 3, they should be solid starters or better. It’s a process and the main problem with Redskins park over the last 15 years is there hasn’t been enough patience in young developing players from the front office, the hyper active DC media and the extremely impatient and overactive fan base.

    As Rich said, Scherff and Moses will get there in time, but it will likely take a month or two till they’re above average. It’s going to be a painful first month for Griffin because the young right side is going to have its handful with the Dolphins, Giants and Rams defensive lines.

    As for Morris, imho I think he’s gone after this year unless he signs a more team friendly deal. If Morris and his agent are looking to get paid north of $5 million, I don’t see him being back in B&G.

    • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:44 AM

      * $5 million a year

  3. colorofmyskinz - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:02 AM

    Trent Williams is a major concern. Let’s not forget about his contract year. And we can barely keep him in the field. Last year he was playing on one leg. We will have major problems this year if he is not on the line for 16 games. Especially to start the season. We need to shake the 3&6 syndrome. Without trent in the first few games it will harm is in a big way. We will be on track for 3&6 and will give our QB RGIII major tough place to find confidence with a compromised line in the beginning of the season where he needs to start strong.

    Not liking Williams injury here. This is not shaping up well at all here for a season start. If we start Williams early, then we run the risk of him being injured all year. We have problems on the line again and it may not be better than last year sadly.

    Uhggggg….

    • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:12 AM

      Isn’t Trent going to play this season?

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 26, 2015 at 8:54 AM

      Yeah I think, at this point, they’re mainly keeping Williams out as a precaution to ensure he’s able to play the start of the season. Honestly, Trent Williams is the least of my worries for the Redskins. He’s probably the very best player on the team (if not that then certainly one of the best) and he’s tough as nails. I don’t see any way they don’t resign him.

    • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:13 AM

      Dude, that is a lot of wringing of hands. Change your moniker to chickenofmyskinz because the sky is falling.
      3-6? Which four teams do you have us beating? I think most folks at this point will take 3-6, provided the rest of the NFC East isn’t 6-3.

      • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:23 AM

        I have the skins starting out 0-3 which will test the patience of Gruden and the entire front office at Redskins park. The good news is I have them winning 3 of their next 4 if Griffin or Colt are the starter and being 3-4 after 7 games.

        I am still not buying the Cousins hysteria. Cousins has to actually show IN A REGULAR SEASON GAME that he can play well enough in the fourth quarter for the team to win. Until I see that, I’m going to think he’s the same guy that looks good in the first half but lost in the second half after defenses make adjustments on him.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:38 AM

          I agree with your first paragraph. And at 0-3 there will be the choruses of “Fire Gruden!” “Bench Griffin!” Could get super ugly up here. Then, we can see what stones McC has and how long Gruden continues to publicly back the QB. I don’t care if Cousins gets a pass attempt this year. Not because I’m sure of whether he’d fail or not but because if this is the last ‘swing of the bat’ of the Griffin experiment, don’t go back to the dugout with the count 0-2, swing the effing bat. To me that’s ten games who knows what the organization thinks.

        • lorcanbonda - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:44 AM

          Cousins hysteria?

          Have I missed that?

        • killermccoy - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:52 AM

          First, I don’t think any of the QBs are the answer and we killed our future with the RG3 trade. However, why wouldn’t you want the guy that has gotten it done for 3 quarters and might get over the hump with more experience instead of the guy that fumbles when not even touched, struggles with decision making and accuracy, bad footwork, and panics in the pocket. RG3 had a good year in a gimmick offense if your not going to run that offense he isnt going to be succesful.

        • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:57 PM

          Didn´t he do that vs Baltimore in 2012 when he came on and won the game in the last minute? Not saying he´s great and he certainly needs to limit his interceptions if he gets a shot this season. But this automatic dismissal of him based on what is a quite limited sample size is a bit weird. The most games he´s started in a row is three I think, and two last year. So that´s five somewhat consecutive starts. Not a lot to base this pessimism on I think. Last year he would have looked solid if he hadn´t collapsed so badly against New York.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:09 PM

          I said since 2012, didn’t I, if I didn’t, I mean to.

          Look the redskins have won 7 games in the last two seasons. Griffin hasn’t started all of them.

          That tells me in 2013 & 14 we lost because we had other problems besides the qb position.

          In 2012 it was pretty clear that we won 10 games, won the division and were up 14-0 after the first quarter vs the Seahawks mostly because of Griffin.

          I have NOT seen Kirk or Colt consistently take a team on their backs and lead them to victories like that. So, I still give Griffin the first crack at the job, should he look horrible the first month, then we can discuss Kirk or Colt replacing him.

        • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:12 PM

          Of course there are other problems. Secondary and particularly special teams has been quite bad at times. Last year they managed to be almost comical.
          The thing about Griffin though is that he doesn´t so much seem to be developing as regressing here. Maybe he just needs to entire system to be changed first. And they´re not doing that two weeks before the season opener, I can tell you that much. As a pocket passer he has showed very little, and that´s what he is now. He was not in 2012.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:41 PM

          In 2013, Griffin was average as a passer while recovering from knee surgery and after missing the entire 2013 offseason practice time and preseason because he was rehabbing.

          In 2014, Griffin wasn’t perfect but he mostly controlled the game and played well enough for the team to win except for the Dallas game where he threw a few really bad ints, particularly the one he threw in the redzone.

          Anyone who watched the Tampa game knows the defense – particularly Amerson & I believe Clark – blew two coverages which allowed Mcown to hit bombs to Mike Evans to win that game. Despite not throwing many passes, the San Fran game was winnable. The minny & 2nd Giants game Griffin played above average minus a few plays and he played average against the Texans in the opener. If Paul doesn’t fumble at the 10, they doesn’t have a blocked punt returned for a TD and Rambo doesn’t blow two coverages the Redskins win that game.

          So again, you can put it all on the qb, but it’s not accurate. Griffin needs to improve in all the areas we talk about at nausea but the rest of the team has sucked the last two years also. How many special teams tds did we give up last year? You gonna tell me that’s Griffins fault.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:35 PM

          @killermccoy You stay with Griffin because he’s got the most upside, you at least start him for the first month, preferably the first two.

          Also, the Rams haven’t been to the playoffs despite getting two extra firsts and a second round pick off of us in 2012.

          If it’s me though I go with Bang’s idea of just starting Griffin every game because if you want to know if he’s your you play him every game.

          They should have done that last year also when they went back to him in the Minny game. Eventhogh he played subpar vs Tampa & SF – mostly when Trent a williams was out – they still should have started Griff vs the Rams & especially the Giants.

          Gruden should have learned from his brother when he was at Tampa that qb carousels don’t work.

        • TheHogs - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:20 PM

          Skulb wrote: “But this automatic dismissal of him based on what is a quite limited sample size is a bit weird.”

          You mean like with Griffin, who played in only seven games in a new offense and under the coaching of a rookie?

  4. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 26, 2015 at 8:04 AM

    Ideally, the line gels quickly so RGIII gets to show if he deserves to have his option for next year picked up.

    But reality says that two new young guys on the O.L. likely will take time to get it together.

    Over a decade of dysfunction is hard to fix in one off-season.
    ~

  5. xskulldog - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:04 AM

    Glad I cancelled my Direct TV NFL Sunday Ticket subscription because you all are correct, it is going to take time for the line to develop. In the meantime, Redskin follies. Last year, I actually paid to watch Redskin Preseason games. This year I will simply wait to see the follies on the NFL channel for free.

    I love the Redskins and I think RGIII will be okay if he can get some help. We all know this rebuild will take time, but in reality, too painfull to watch. Hopefully, Saturday Night we can avoid another soap opera and have a solid performance from the first team offense.

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:26 AM

      I know what you’re saying man. I was so depressed after RG3’s series last week. But there’s other things on this team to like. If you’re a realistic person, and it sounds like you are, then I think you can agree that a good season for this team would be 6 wins while showing improvement across the board. A great season would be 8 wins with the same. So that’s how I’m thinking of it. Them getting 8 wins in 2015 would be like them winning the super bowl for me.

      Plus I like this defense man, and I’m excited to watch it. We haven’t even seen it with, potentially, it’s two best players yet (Kerrigan and Galette). Yet they’re still managing to get OK pressure, stuff the run, and have great pursuit. The secondary hasn’t looked as great as I hoped, but I think there’s little chance they won’t be better. Especially once Breeland is back and if Hall ever gets back to 100%. They should, hopefully, be a fun D to watch.

      Then our run game is looking good too. The line may be having issues in pass protection but the run game is coming right along. Jones looks like a wrecking ball coming out of the backfield. I can get excited about that.

      We all know this team isn’t a contender, but I still think there’s enough to be excited about. I also have to believe that the QB play will come together better and be at least serviceable compared to the game vs the Lions. I just can’t believe it could consistently be that bad.

      • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:40 AM

        We’re playing without 3 of our best offensive players also, could be reason the offense has struggled.

        • xskulldog - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:17 AM

          Good Point…With Williams, Reed and Jackson on the field, hopefully the offense will put in a respectable showing. The defense looks like it is coming along. Special Teams have been quiet, which is good. With the exception of the Hayward injury, no major issues here.

          I still cannot get excited about 8 wins. It is a shame we cannot fire owner. We have been jinxed ever since he took over the team. The good news is that Yes, we cannot be consistently be that bad. Can’t wait until we turn this around and get back to the days when we made the playoffs and had a shot the Lombardi Trophy. The last few years have been embarrasing.

      • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:28 AM

        I’ll also add that I’m not exactly sold on the defense.

        The Redskins safeties still can’t cover, Goldson should be playing SS, he hair isn’t a FS anymore coverage wise but if he’s playing closer to the box and covering TEs, he can be a force like Ihenacho. The Redskins secondary has had the same problem for 7 of the last 8 years since Sean died, they have all string safety types and no FS’s. The exception was 2011 when they had Atogwe and that year the pass defense was 13th I believe and thee Redskins were tied for 10th in sacks.

  6. troylok - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:22 AM

    I think it is waaaay too early to call Scherff a bust, but he has not been the player I would have expected for a top ten draft pick. I wonder if there will be a point when they elevate the slightly more polished Long and let Scherff learn from the training room and the occasional substitution. Callahan came in to make an immediate impact and I think he will go with his best chance to have a respectable offensive line – even if that means benching the high priced rookie.

    • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:37 AM

      You learn and getter the most as an OL through live bullets, Scherff hasn’t even played a nfl game yet. Moses has only has meaningful playing time in 3 nfl games.

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:08 AM

      I don’t think Schreff has under performed. His run blocking has been quite good. He’s been caught too upright on some pass protection but don’t forget he was only recently moved to guard. It’s still an adjustment period for him because before TC he was being primarily used as RT. I am actually more concerned about Moses at RT once regular season starts. It’s not so much about how Moses has performed as much as can he transcend his game against some very good Dlines that he’ll face,

      • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:18 AM

        With both young guys the only way for them to improve is to play, with Griffin, there is only one way for him to improve and is they for him to play.

        This morning on the “man cave” Paul and Reid posed a question what person do you feel worst for in the organization?

        It was mixed answers. From the Wrs, to Gruden, to Griffin, to the OL etc.

        The thing is we shouldn’t feel sorry for any of them. The Wrs chose to sign here, the coach chose to sign here knowing Griffin’s strengths and faults – and he hasn’t improved Griffin Faults and on the surface doesn’t seem to want to play to Griffin’s strengths – most of the starting defenders are free agents that chose to sign here.

        I guess my answe may be the OL, many times they unjustly get criticized because some fans wrong think that qb should be rushed or touched, which is unreasonable. The guys in the other jerseys are trying also… You aren’t gonna win every battle, the goal is to win the war. This org needs more long term thinking, hopefully Scot brings that.

      • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:19 AM

        Scherff has under preformed. Obviously the pressure that led to the first sack but he was pushed back on the negative run by Morris the play before the sack. The problem I have is that HE is not playing with the twos to get more reps.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:41 AM

          IMO the issue is that we drafted an OT who is used to playing more upright in his stance and are playing him at guard. What I know in 10 years of playing organized football Scherff has never played guard.

          Tackles play higher in their stance, they’re used to mostly pushing DE’s who are 30 to 70 pounds lighter than them out do the way with a few punches to the side.

          A guard has to be more compact, have a stouter base as they block a DT who’s their size or bigger. This is a big adjustment for a rookie whether fans want to admit it or not.

          I have faith that Scherff will get it, but it might not be until the second half of the season that he’s playing like a top 10 pick.

          If it were me, I would have just kept Scherff at RT and tried to get more competition for Long by having Moses and Compton play some reps at guard.

          I think moving Scherff to guard before he starts an nfl game is premature.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:57 AM

          I agree about the transition to guard. That is why I wanted him out there with the twos. He needs more reps.

          He got moved to guard though not because he was better than Long but because Moses was better than Scherff…and Long. Scherff got abused in one-on-ones at tackle just as most scouts thought might be the case. Could he improve? Sure but not fast enough. Think about it. The coaches had little idea what they’d get out of Moses this year when they drafted Scherff and had no idea until training camp. All offseason Scherff is working at right tackle doing better or at least as good as the guy behind him. Then training camp starts and a week in there’s a switch. Moses was better. In addition, the ‘skins have a stable full of guard draft picks including one from this year. They even released Chester after watching Long. I suspect that at this point Long is a better guard than Scherff but you don’t bench your 5th pick of the draft, you find a place for him.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:08 AM

          He’s getting a fair amount of push downfield on run plays as well. As a rookie guard this is the time for him to have struggles and work to overcome them. Again the shift to guard came at the beginning of TC. The only way I see him under performing is by the fact he couldn’t win out at Right Tackle which is where he was drafted to start. However, I stated after the draft that guard is where he looked best suited so I wasn’t surperised at all about the move but in fairness to him the shift came late so there is some latitude for allowing him time to adjust

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:16 AM

          I AGREE that there is an adjustment. If y’all want to cut him slack. That’s cool too. MY ISSUE, is that he’s getting very little live action. Why not give him the first series with the twos? What has he earned? (If we want to throw that around.) I see the mistakes and want him to work on it in the preseason. We don’t even know if he has the endurance required of an NFL linemen. 30 snaps in two games is less than a half of work. WHY?

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM

          Because it’s meaning less games. So you want the 5th pick playing 3 quarters and having a higher risk of getting injuried?

          Doesn’t take but one play for someone to role up on his ankle or knee like Niles Paul & Markice Pouncey.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:20 PM

          No. He needs the work in live action. Sure there is injury risk but the risk of bad individual play during games that count right now is too much. I’m wasn’t advocating him play three qtrs of the first two games, just the first series with the two. That’s two more series and three if you count Saturday but I’m not even going there if got the other two. If you think those two series are too much risk, wrap him in bubbles.

        • captblood3000 - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:11 AM

          I disagree abanig, on playing Scherff at guard, at least for now. Moses has more of the length and mobility that you want at tackle. This isn’t to say that Scherff won’t start someday at tackle, but Moses is closer to being the prototype.

          The Redskins front office must have broken down Scherff’s performance in the 2014 Maryland game, which the Lions game reprised. Callahan must have a plan to correct the flaws that game revealed. Otherwise, they would drafted someone else, and Scherff would be a Giant.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:58 AM

          Scherff has been playing OT for a long time, I think he’s more comfortable there so I would have kept him there.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:31 AM

          You also have to remember he is moving from the left side to the right so everything is kind of opposite to what he is use to

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:41 AM

          True, but the issues of not initiating contact and getting his pad level too high I think are more of a concern. He just seems too slow of the ball – super strong but slow.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:33 AM

          I 100% agree with that take Bang.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:26 PM

          I think with time he will get Quiker and adjust foot placement from one side to the other is opposite so he may be still concentrating on that and body position from the switch from tackle to gaurd also. Takes time for it to come naturally. I think the better switch would have bin to put him at LG first the transition might have bin quicker. But the need was on the Right side.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:35 PM

          Yes, he needs time and reps. LG probably would’ve been an easier transition. Point is the offense is only as good as how soon he can make this transition and/or how the QB/RB can overcome the inevitable mistakes. If Griffin side steps to his right, it won’t be 3rd and 21 instead it’s 3rd and 11 or better. If Morris breaks the tackle behind the line of scrimmage it would’ve been better than 2 and 11.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM

          If Scherff blocks Walker? Then maybe Griffin has time to complete a pass…

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 1:49 PM

          It is intriguing as to why he didn’t play a half last game. I can only assume the the coaches think he getting sufficient work or they are closely evaluation other backups. His performance hasnt merit 1st team level reps. I read he spends a lot of time after practice so assuming here as well that maybe coaches don’t want to push him too far too fast in games. He should play three quarters Saturday so maybe the staff is preparing him for it. Personnaly I’d like to see Schreff than he has. I’ll add that based on what I observed last game, Long played really well relieving Schreff last week,

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:13 PM

          I think it’s a blanket philosophy for the 1st team – although there are guys who play fewer series (i.e. Morris), no one plays with just the twos. I disagree for guys like Griffin and Scherff that need the work but then the coaches would have to admit that these guys played with the twos to get a few more reps.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:39 PM

          If they’re pegged to be the starters and you out them with the twos and have them playing a full half in the first game and 3 quarters in the second and they would have gotten seriously injured the coach would get killed for it.

          Not playing either with the twos is the right move.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:27 PM

          I get the ‘outing’ bit but a series? Who keeps talking about quarters? Two series total. One against Cleveland and one against Detroit. The downside is that if they fail, folks will notice and then you have to answer questions. I don’t know how they do it in New England, but at some point somewhere, you got to stop coddling and say to whoever’s asking: “They’re football players that need the extra work.” “Next question.”

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM

          I looked at that play the RT was also getting pushed back there was no way he could side step to the left he would have had to take a couple steps back and go around to the left too much to ask for the Oline got Obliterated plan and simple.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:49 PM

          The RG was pushed into Griffin’s lap, the RT was pushed back but where you’d expect him to be. Griffin would’ve had to recognize it immediately, slide right, and throw. He then avoids the negative play. It how a QB helps his line. Tough, yes; but possible.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 4:58 PM

          My opinion is that a top 10 qb in this league would have thrown the ball away. A qb who’s developing as a pocket passer mike Griffin is likely to just eat it because he doesn’t want to throw an interception.

          I get what Cooley and others are saying but it’s a classic case of hindsight. Griffin didn’t think there was any way he’d hit his back foot on his 5 step drop and there would be a DT changing at him and his RG would be in his lap.

          Griffin did recognize it was happening and he tried to escape to the left – you know the side that most say he never moves to – when he did that though another rusher was coming at him.

          I don’t blame Griffin for eating it but he really has to stop fumbling, that’s become as big a problem for Griffin as Kirk’s ints were for him last year.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:24 PM

          Tim, just finished watching Griffin’s three series again. I’m correct on the play action passes but there is NO max protect. The first PA pass, Compton is the TE on the left side and does a good job pass blocking – six blockers. The pass was knocked down. The second PA pass on 2 and 12 there the five eligible receivers all run routs. Doesn’t matter that they’re open – sacked already with four-man rush.

        • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:21 PM

          @abanig

          Again there was no five step drop. Just please go actually look at Griffin´s footwork on that play. There was at most a half step on the play where Scherff ended up being rushed into Griffin. If he had performed a five step, like I imagine the play probably called for, he would not have been were he was and negative yards could have been avoided. Yes Scherff needs some hard time in practice to get himself better ready. but by Helm so does Griffin. His footwork against Detroit was absolutely abysmal at times. I just don´t understand this rhetorical insistence of avoiding actual observation just to be able to stick to your guns here. Don´t call a floppy half-step a five step and expect to not get called on it. The game footage exists!

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:54 PM

          There’s no way it was a 1/2 step drop, he was 3 to 5 steps behind the line of scrimmage.

          His footwork isn’t perfect, often times its bad but that doesn’t let the line off the hook if Robert is getting hit because the RG is getting bowled over right in front of his face.

          The biggest issue was Griffin’s fumble on the play, he has to have better ball security. Eating the ball and taking a sack is not as bad as a turnover.

          Every play Griffin has now is being over analyzed and held up to the standard of the perfect play or decision for a quarterback on every play like he’s some damn robot ant there are no defenders on the field.

          It’s a bit much and totally unrealistic to compare Griffin to a perfect player.

        • Skulb - Aug 27, 2015 at 10:27 AM

          The line moved forwards. That´s not a dropback. Griffin barely moved on the play.

        • troylok - Aug 27, 2015 at 1:49 AM

          It wasn’t only that Scherff got pushed back; he got pushed back by a scrub. And, to me, the team must have decided that there was some flaw in Scherff’s game and they moved him to guard. They obviously intended him to play tackle, because he started camp at tackle. So, the guy, in essence, gets a demotion on the line, and then on national television he gets pushed back badly by a guy who isn’t even a starter. I’m not saying pull the plug entirely on the guy, but Callahan has pressure to improve the offensive line right away, and maybe the safer thing for him would be to put Long in.

    • kenlinkins - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:06 AM

      Many Redskins fans seem to forget that Mark May was drafted in the first round (#20 over all) to play RT. He was beat so badly in his first few games as the starting RT that the Redskins had to bench him and send him to a sport shrink to regain his confidence. They then moved him inside at G, that same year they drafted Russ Grimm to play G, and found Joe Jacoby as a UDFA, and Jeff Bostic became the starting center. This all happened in 1981 when the Redskins started off by losing 6 of their first 7 games and looked pretty bad rushing for only 44 and 65 yards in the first two games. THAT is how the HOGS started, by gaining 44 yards on the ground in their first game together. While I am not saying that this group will become the next HOGS, I do know that even great O-Lines take time and anyone saying this group is a bust after just 2 preseason games is way off base. What if coach Gibbs had broken up these guys after just a few games? As a coach or GM you follow what you believe is the best talent and stay with it, fans be damned. Let’s just see where this group is at the end of the season.

      • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:23 AM

        Good post, Ken. In fairness to the run totals, part of that was on Gibbs being an Air Coryell disciple. (If you didn’t live it, you might not know St. Joe had to learn to appreciate the run game.)

        • kenlinkins - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:55 AM

          True, in game 3 the Redskins had over 500 yards total and lost to St Louis, in game 6 they only had about 70 yards in the air and won, then another win in game 14 with about 70 yards in the air. It seems that coach Gibbs learn when to run and when to throw and having a O-Line that came together helped.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:03 PM

          Theismann was getting clobbered and I think threw 5 picks in one of the 0-5 games. Young O-linemen need to run block.

      • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 6:25 PM

        I agree with this. As long as there´s positive development this season I´ll be happy. I started out this winter with a 6-10 prediction and I´m sticking with it. And I even think we have to be fairly happy if that´s where it ends up. Too many loose ends for anything more to be realistic this year. Getting the line to play as a unit is a part of that. The secondary is another. Special teams is a third. Finding some consistency at QB is a fourth. Evaluating a shaky coach is a fifth. Anyone expecting more than 6 wins with all this going on is being very optimistic I think.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:54 PM

          I had us at 7-9 and was pretty bullish on it – even knowing it was a vast improvement. I was excited about Galette since I’ve seen no pressure with four men this preseason and had expected the shti storm about Griffin to not come to town until the end of September. It’s a full five weeks early and that has me down to 6-10 and not a confident 6-10. What can change this morbid prediction to something more sunny? Only the failure of other teams. This I wholeheartedly expect but the question then becomes which teams will fail. If it’s San Fran and Arizona that will hardly benefit the Redskins as much as if it’s Dallas and Philly or even Miami and Buffalo.

        • Skulb - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:21 PM

          I see 6 wins on the back of the defense so it´s definitely contingent on the new D-line and secondary getting their act together at some point. And the apparent improvements on special teams has me staying at 6. It would help if something intelligent at all started taking place at QB, but I am not very optimistic there. Hopefully they´ll just call non-stop runs all season long. That way you can avoid the inevitable faux-pas under center and maybe score enough for a few wins anyway.
          Go Redskins!

    • TheHogs - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM

      Skulb, what’s your opinion on the footage of Griffin vs. the Browns, a game in which he had zero sacks? Where’s the props that you have for him?

  7. timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:52 AM

    The Coach can call plays/formations to cover up for the bad Oline till they gel hopefully he does and doesn’t act oblivious to it.

  8. bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:11 AM

    Like the first and ten run where Scherff gets pushed back allowing penetration resulting in a one yard loss by Morris? Or a one-step drop out of shotgun and the guard is pushed back in the QBs face? O-linemen are going to lose one-on-one battles – especially rookies but there is very little a coach can do to cover that up. The coach could switch to a QB that gets the ball out faster or replace the O-linemen that is losing his battles but I don’t suspect that these options are on the table, instead he has to instruct the QB to get rid of it faster and shake the linemen’s face mask.

    • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:22 AM

      Bootlegs, quik screens, slant, play action, Pistol, read option, Max Protect all these slow the rush. The Coach can mix up the plays a little instead of calling straight drop backs or obvious passing plays repeatedly in a row for 3 and outs. A Coach can easily cover up some of the Olines weaknesses with play calling. It’s weather the Coach is too stubborn to change his Offense to cater to the players strengths and cover their weaknesses

      • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:28 AM

        The first sack was an example of a quick slant. How does MAX protect help missing your assignment in the run game. Everything you mentioned was called last week except Pistol and the only time obvious pass plays were called consecutively was with 52 seconds left in the 2nd qtr. The tape dont lie…

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:49 AM

          Not everything I said was called I didn’t see a quik screen I didn’t see pax protect, there was no bootlegs or Pistol formation, or any read option play called. For RG3 there may have bin a play action call. All those calls were made for Cousins and McCoy which may have bin due to amount of reps

          I mentioned Max Protect for a passing down to slow the rush Obviously. If a guy gets blown up on a run play thats on him. The RB has to find a way to make him miss.

          On RG 3 second seriers 3 straight passing Plays 3 and Out. The Play by Play from NFL.com doesnt lie.

          Also not all Pistol formation plays are read option. Read option can be ran out of other formations and you can run and pass out of the Pistol without using a read option. The Pistol is actually a Power Run formation. Isn’t the Power Run what we are trying to be? Then why not use it.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:01 PM

          Quick screen to Roberts on 3rd and 21. Max protect on the second sack which was play action. Wasn’t the first play on the three and out play action? So on 2nd and ten and 3rd and 6 what exactly do you want the coach to do? If he then runs the ball you complain that he didn’t give Griffin a chance to throw. Seems like there’s a simple solution for you, blame the coach if doesn’t call a pass on 1st down because he’s calling them for the other guys or blame the coach for calling three straight passes. That one, I’m not sure why you’re upset. I mean, who would expect a quarterback to throw the ball, let alone three times in a row; especially when the running game is working like a charm.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:20 PM

          The very first play they got good yardage from runs for the Most part this guy calls more of a vanilla scheme for RG3 than the others like I said that may be due to amount of reps. I will never complain about a Coach running on first down I will complain about him calling 3 straight pass plays. Also you keep switching wich play play action was called was it the first series was it the last was it halfway through I only rember 1 play action being called for him during an obvious passing situation but you contend there was another one called then you keep changing which one it was. Maybe you think all passing plass are play action I dont know.

          I do know that Max Protect is not a play action play which you contend. Do you know what Max Protect is? I’ll let you answer that so you can realize where you may have bin mistaken because you have in the past mistake a play before as something other than what it was. Remember stepping up into a pocket that didn’t exist.

          Don’t take it personally but there is a lot of inconsistencies in what plays you are saying are play action.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:29 PM

          Max protect is when you keep two receivers in to block – usually a tight-end and a back. Play action is when the QB fakes the hand off on a pass play. These are my definitions so adjust your point of view if necessary.

          I’ll rewatch the plays and get back to you but my recollection is Gruden called two play action passes for Griffin. One a sack – the second one – and the other a batted pass at the line of scrimmage. I’ll update you if I made any mistakes. Although, I am prone to mistakes, don’t expect any updates.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:35 PM

          BTW a quik screen to Roberts on a 3rd and 21 is that a smart call to make? Maybe someone else should be calling plays. Maybe they are using the PreSeason to Evaluate McVays play calling ability. Maybe there is 2 different play callers

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:39 PM

          With what the line showed before 3rd and 21 – two negative plays – it was a smart call. The ball was out in less than a second and sure it’s a give up play but if the receiver makes a move or two you get a new set of downs. You want him to call something that results in a sack? What would’ve you suggested?

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 9:41 PM

          A quick screen in 3rd and long is a smart play call if your qb is getting his head knocked off every time he drops back.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:42 PM

          Max protect is when you send 2 receivers out on a play and everyone else stays in to block so there is no way they called max protect under the terms you mentioned

          Those 3 plays you mentioned are actually on a site I saw last night so I can look at the video too if I’m wrong I will let you know. I will update you either way mistakes happen we are all human. I think the Baltimore game will answer allot about play calling

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:45 PM

          Seven blockers is also considered Max protect – instead of the eight you mentioned. Both are considered Max protect. I do not recall a play with eight blockers.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:49 PM

          Being that aggressive if you are gonna go short and the Defense is that aggressive call a screen with Thompson a guy that can make someone miss and pick up yards in a hurry. If not Max Protect, or 2 TE set then the QB can Audible depending on the pre snap read Either a play where one of the stays to block or they go out as a receiver..

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 1:00 PM

          The call was fine. The line was horrible two plays in a row. A screen to the back would’ve required more from your offensive line. Two TEs?! Which two? Audible?! Have they even set up any audibles? Have we seen Griffin make an audible this preseason? Is that because they don’t trust the QB? Or in the case against Detroit, the young line (Moses, Scherff, and Smith)? And if no audibles for the line, is it because the coaches don’t want that responsibility on the line yet or is it because the Qb doesn’t trust the line to get the change right?

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:33 PM

          A screen takes advantage of the rush. How would that be asking more of them? The screen lets the rushers in towards the QB he dumps it off to the RB. Then the only blocks needed are usually on the outside much hows that harder on the Oline? Hell the way they were rushing you might even get a ruffing the passer penalty. What’s it matter wich TEs you gktta see wich ones can play. As gar as the Audible you send the QB in with 2 plays and it should be made clear in the huddle the plan easy. All a lot better thn a short pass with little to no chace of doing anything. Quit being a Gruden Apologist lol I hope you know thats a joke

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:44 PM

          The O-line would have to hold a block for a split second before releasing. I don’t think that’s asking too much of them – except for on that night. Again, what did they practice? And they certainly didn’t practice with Smith as Williams was an out of the blue scratch. I don’t have a problem with the call and wouldn’t have had a problem with a screen to a back. Just offered up my speculation as to what the coach may have been thinking in that situation.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:02 PM

          I honestly believe that they are keeping Griffin in the pocket this preseason because that’s what he’s been working on the most this offseason and what he still needs the most reps at.

          I don’t think Jay is purposely not calling plays Griffin is good at. I think they’re using this as a dress rehearsal to get him more ready for the preseason but the OL has struggled pass blocking at times and it’s messed with Griffin & the passing games rhythm.

    • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:05 PM

      Another reason why I play Scherff at RT, that position is farther away from the qb. I’d want the more stout and experienced player playing the position closest to the Qb.

      If Scherff is at RT, all he usually has to do is push a DE who he outweighs by 30 to 70 pounds by the qb and the qb can step up. When Scherff is at OG and he gets blown up back into the qbs lap, there’s no place for the qb to step up into unless he’s 2012 Griffin and can do a magic act.

      • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:12 PM

        Scherff at RT has sailed. No catching it. Perhaps if Ryan Kerrigan didn’t show a ‘how to beat a right tackle’ demonstration in practice he’d still be there. But Kerrigan pushed him from RT into the QB like Smith on the other side against Detroit and when he didn’t he just ripped him and blew by. Not a good situation for your skittish in the pocket QB.

        • brucefan1 - Aug 26, 2015 at 4:07 PM

          Not saying that this WILL apply to Shreff, but at draft time someone wrote about the frequency of high-pick offensive linemen going bust. Not ALL, but an inordinate amount compared to other positions.

          Of course I didn’t think about it much at the time, cuz I guessed that the Skins would be taking someone like Fowler, Jr. or Williams. Gotta admit that when Sherff’s name got called, that article came to mind!

          Now it’s kinda “haunting” me. LOL!

          Come ON, Brandon! The Skins need you. Don’t be a statistic! ;^}

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 4:44 PM

          I’d say OL go bust a pretty good amount of the time but QBs & WRs top that list.

          We never had a chance to take fowler as I’m sure you know and if we had he tore his ACL so at this point we should consider ourselves lucky in that regard.

          That being said Williams was my most fav prospect in the draft and I’m still not exactly pleased we passed on him but I do understand why we took the Scherff.

        • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 7:20 PM

          I remember the article. I thing the conclusion was that there are just as many busted number one draft picks from the o-line as there are in other more ‘glamorous’ positions. The whole notion that taking a linemen number 1 was safe, yada, yada.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:04 PM

          Kerrigan is a pro bowl LOLB, one of the best in the nfl at that position.

          Again I’d rather have a RT give up a little pressure than a RG who is giving pressure straight up the “A” gap.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:01 PM

        Sorry but I don’t think Schreff can block edge rushers in a 3/4 defense. He is a pwerdul mauler and has some speed downfield but he’s not athletic or explosive like a Trent Willaims.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:05 PM

        I meant to add he does have the body for the tackle. Arms just long enough and massive hands. Maybe with work he can be capable but why go with a capable tackle when you could have an elite guard from the same guy?

      • captblood3000 - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:09 PM

        If Scherff continues to struggle mightly at right guard, start Spencer Long in his place. If you move Scherff to right tackle you’ll see speed rushers expose him.

        As for “bust”, look up another Iowa tackle, Robert Gallery. Gallery was a success at guard, not tackle. The key word there is “success”.

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 10:14 PM

          Scherff is more used to dealing with speed rushers – as he was an Left a Tackle – then he is used to blocking 300 to 350 pound defensive tackles.

        • captblood3000 - Aug 27, 2015 at 9:11 AM

          Nonsense, abanig. You don’t understand how Iowa used Scherff. The 2014 Iowa-Maryland game is on YouTube. Go watch Scherff, especially in the second half. He gets trampled once, but mostly he fails to stop speed rushers. Also in the first half, when Iowa led, notice how often Iowa put a tight end on Scherff’s left shoulder.

        • abanig - Aug 27, 2015 at 4:48 PM

          I watched the game vs md and honestly when he played so porky I didn’t want to draft him @ 5.

          I wanted Leonard Williams much more but I can’t fault the Skins for taking the best offensive lineman available in the draft.

          I wish Ronnie Stanley had came out because that would have been my preference over Scherff but still I wanted Williams the most.

  9. goback2rfk - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:17 AM

    Seems like an excuse to me. Redskins fans are full of excuses. Things like “Oh this is a build year” or ” Oh RG3 just needs time to develop in the pocket” or “we stink because of the o-line” or “This thing will get turned around in a couple of years.”
    I have heard all the excuses in the book. “Oh the O-Line just needs to mingle a little more and then they will be good.” Either they can block as a unit or not. Mingling and having after practice dinner sessions are not going to help an offensive line that just does not have it.

    • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:46 AM

      On the other hand, snap judgments and first impressions are always accurate.

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:08 PM

      Wow in your premise everything is an excuse and success should just materialize in no time. That’s Fantasy Football not the NFL

  10. cowboyhater - Aug 26, 2015 at 11:57 AM

    This team will take time….that’s not a redskin fan excuse as one of you mentioned on this site. This team’s personnel has been mismanaged for such a long time that it will take SM more than just one off season to fix it. That is truth, not an excuse. Our QB situation will be in flux if RG cannot grasp this offense. The O-line will take time to gel, and that’s just another fact and not an excuse. Callahan is not coaching the cowgirls offensive line, who has 3 pro bowlers on it.. He is coaching a mix of experience and inexperience, and will get mixed results throughout the year. The defense will have to learn to play together as a unit, and that will also take time. Our DB’s are not as good as some fans may think. This season will be long and tortuous, so if you are not prepared for it I would suggest to go to the late service on Sunday’s, and spend the day in your yard cleaning the leaves.

    • bangkokben - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:07 PM

      That last line is priceless.

    • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 12:11 PM

      Amen to that! At best this is a .500 team if everything goes perfectly, most likely they are a few games under .500 and picking in the top 10 agains next year and most likely drafting Connor Cook out of Michigan St from the 6 to 10 range.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 26, 2015 at 2:15 PM

        Let’s see how Conner does this year. I’m not ready to make him a 1st round pick in the NFL

        • abanig - Aug 26, 2015 at 5:14 PM

          Sure we can wait, but he’s got the size and tools to be the best in this class along with Hackenberg & Cardale Jones.

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