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Need to Know: For the 2015 Redskins, too small of a sample size to judge

Aug 22, 2015, 5:53 AM EDT

RG3 fumble vs Lions

Here is what you need to know on this Saturday, August 22, seven days before the Washington Redskins play the Baltimore Ravens

Small sample size

Please do not interpret this post to be an attempt to blow sunshine, well, you know where. It is simply an attempt to bring some perspective to the game on Thursday. I am well aware that there are plenty of issues with the team.

But those issues were not necessarily identified during the game against the Lions on Thursday. Kory Lichtensteiger said it best. He was asked if this game was a measuring stick for the offensive line.

“I think it’s hard to have a measuring stick after a quarter,” he said.

Griffin and the first team offense were on the field for 16 snaps. Every Sunday during the regular season teams struggle during the first quarter. But they adjust, they make counter moves and eventually they find their footing.

In fact, offenses almost never play as poorly as Griffin and the Redskins did over the course of an entire game. If you project Griffin’s stats out over 64 snaps he would be eight of 20 (40 percent completions) for 32 yards with 12 sacks. No quarterback since 1974 has attempted at least 20 passes in a game for 32 or fewer yards with a completion percentage of 40 percent or lower. If that’s too much to plough through, suffice it to say that history says that Griffin and the offense would not have played that poorly for an entire game.

That doesn’t mean that they would have played great, or even competently. There would have been improvement over the course of the game but we don’t know if it would have been enough to be competitive.

The whole point is, we don’t know. It’s hard to have a measuring stick after a quarter. And even if you add in the 18 snaps Griffin and the starting offense played in Cleveland you have 34 snaps, a total of about 30 minutes of play. The Redskins offense has a quarter of OK work (Browns) and one of bad work (Lions) in the book That is really not enough to make even a, well, snap judgement.

I will inject one more thing to think about here. Scot McCloughan is building the Redskins to be a tough, physical team featuring power run blocking and an attacking defense. That style of football is designed to wear teams down over four quarters. In the preseason, with players shuffling in and out from beginning to end, the physical nature is less of an advantage.

To be sure, there is concern among fans that what we saw on Thursday was a continuation of what we have seen for the past two seasons, when the team combined to win seven games. There is some validity to that; however that ignores the addition of McCloughan, Bill Callahan, Matt Cavanaugh, and about 15 draft picks and free agents that should upgrade the team.

We won’t see the Redskins’ best football until the regular season starts. Again, their “best” may still not be good enough to be a competitive NFL team in 2015. But it is not going to be revealed over the course of just 16 snaps.

Timeline

Today’s schedule: Closed practice at Redskins Park

—It’s been 237 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be 22 days until they play the Dolphins at FedEx Field.

Days until: Preseason Redskins @ Ravens 7; final cuts 14; Redskins @ Giants Thursday night 33

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In case you missed it

  1. 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:06 AM

    While I do agree that Thursday’s game was not enough snaps to draw any hard evidence that Griffin is progressing, why is it that Griffin is unable to have a sustained drive that ends with a TD? This isn’t a new problem, this problem has been with him for two seasons now! Even the Raiders benched the first first in the draft after a few poor season with no progression, why is Griffin getting so many chance. Bench the guy until he improves enough that the offense can actually move the ball with him in the game. Why just anoint the guy? If he is still a project , he shouldn’t be on the job training. Let someone else take a beating while Griffin is brought along slowly. This should have been down last year if he couldn’t handle the offense. Which it appeared he couldn’t.

    • warpath1 - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM

      griffin gets more chances because of the cost paid for him. nobody wants to admit they paid 30K for a ford pinto

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 1:43 PM

      Because we know what Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins are. Seriously, we know. They’re backups at best. We know they’re not starting caliber QBs. That could very well be true for RG3 too. I’m fine with people saying the Redskins don’t have a single starting QB on the roster. I have issue, however, with people saying RG3 doesn’t deserve a shot over the other two guys. Not because I’m saying that’s how great RG3 is, but how bad the other guys are. The one thing you can say for RG3 that you can’t say about Cousins or McCoy is that we’ve seen him sustain a high level of success for an extended period of time; albeit in 2012. So, there’s a chance that it’s buried in him somewhere and we have to be sure before we set him free. This would be a completely different discussion if there was a legitamate contender ready to start behind RG3. But there isn’t. That’s the simple depressing truth of the Redskins current QB situation. RG3 is our best shot. It’s fine to be mad or depressed about that, but that’s why he’s being propped up as the starter. I’m not saying I think RG3 is a great NFL QB, just that he is the current best hope for this team.

      • renhoekk2 - Aug 22, 2015 at 3:52 PM

        Really? We know what Cousins is? A backup at best? The guy has started 9 games in his career. For a bad team. The team averaged more points per game with him starting last season than McCoy or Griffin. That doesn’t happen on most teams. Where the offense performs better with the backup than the starter. And it wasn’t close. The team avg 24 pts a game that Cousins started and 15 pts a game that Griffin started. And Mike Shanahan made an excellent point last week. He said you can’t ask a QB who has started 9 games in his career to throw 35-40 passes a game and expect him to succeed. Gruden did Cousins no favors and pretty much set him up to fail with his play calling. Is it the interceptions that bother people? Do you know how many interceptions P Manning threw his first two years in the league? 41. His interception % was higher than Griffins? 4.9% to Cousins 4.3%. Aikman’s was 5.3% I can keep naming HOF Super Bowl winning QB’s if I need to. And those players got all of the first team reps with the starters everyday in practice. Cousins doesn’t get that. My point isn’t to put Cousins in their class, but to point out that throwing interceptions for young QB’s is part of the learning process, not an indictment of a players ability.
        It doesn’t matter. Why do we keep having this discussion? Griffin will continue to start because that is what Snyder wants. He doesn’t want to win, he wants to try and save face at all cost. Because that is what narcissist do. I truly believe Kirk Cousins will be the starting QB in Buffalo next season. He won’t be able to pack his bags fast enough. He’ll have a very good defense behind him and a coach who likes to run the ball. I have no doubt he will succeed in that situation.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:00 PM

          We continue to have this discussion because people insist on saying Cousins is a starter. I get your point, I really do. If you want to argue that Cousins is better than RG3, then fine, I can handle that. Cousins looked better and had better stats than RG3 did last season. Point taken. But Cousins being better than RG3 doesn’t make him an NFL starter. My point was that I’m not going to argue with anyone who says Griffin isn’t starter material. Or that Washington doesn’t have a single starting QB on the roster. My point was that, while RG3 may not have what it takes, neither does McCoy or Cousins. In no way was I saying RG3 is the best of the bunch. My only point for why it’s reasonable for RG3 to start is because we’ve seen him have tremendous success in both college and one year in the NFL. Can’t say that about Cousins. McCoy was great in college but a bust in the NFL. RG3 is the only QB on this roster to ever look great in the NFL. So if you’re Scot and you don’t think there’s a single starting QB on this team, why not go with the guy whose done it before and see if he can get it back? You say 9 games is too small a sample size for Cousins? RG3 didn’t play 9 games last year. The only year, other than 2012, where it’s believed he was in full health. And despite popular opinion, RG3 wasn’t terrible in 2013, he just took a step (or two) back from his sensational rookie year. While having 1.5 legs at that. So, it’s completely reasonable of the Redskins to want to see a large sample size from the only QB on the team to ever have a great season, while he’s healthy and with a QB coach, to know what they really have in him before they let him go and start the QB hunt all over.

          And I do understand what you’re saying about Cousins’ lack of opportunity and other great QBs struggling at first. But I think you need to consider a couple points. 1, not every single QB has to get starter reps to develop. In fact, in a perfect world, all rookie QBs would come in and play behind a solid veteran for a few years, develop, then take the torch. Was Aaron Rogers ready to go the second he got the starting job in Greenbay? Despite not getting first team reps behind Favre? Oh yeah, he was. And don’t say it’s not fair to compare Cousins to Rogers, because you’re comparing him to Manning to try and prove a point.
          2) Cousins is not Peyton Manning. He doesn’t have the pedigree for one. The , do you remember just how good Peyton was in college and coming into the NFL? Cousins isn’t even close to that. Manning maybe got a little more rope because the potential was painfully obvious. Manning was the first overall pick, Cousins wasn’t even a second rounder. Don’t you think a team will give the first overall pick a little more slack than a later round draft pick? Manning HAD to work for the Colts because of what they paid for him. Cousins had served his purpose. If we get 4 years of quality backup work from him, then he was a good pick. It may not be fair, but that’s reality.
          3) Cousins hasn’t been mind blowingly good in his small sample size. He’s not putting up much of a fight to make Washington have to start him. It’s not just the INTs. His play is average at best when he is playing at his best. We’ve honestly seen enough of him to know this. Then, when he’s not at his best, he’s downright terrible. Manning may have thrown a lot of INTs too, but he was brilliant the rest of the time. You have to look at more than just INTs to have a fair comparison.
          4) You’re talking about when Manning was a rookie. This is Cousins 4th year. How was Peyton playing his 4th year? Or Aaron Rogers even though he wasn’t getting starter snaps in practice or live game reps? Hm? Cousins was an INT machine in his 3rd year, not rookie year. That’s the difference there. He plays exactly like he did in college. Doesn’t have seemed to progressed at all. He makes his reads pre snap, that’s why he throws so many INTs. Defenses don’t watch film and game plan for pre season games. That’s why Cousins looks good in them. Same with regular season games where he’s the backup and comes in. The defense didn’t prepare for him, watch his film and figure out his tendencies. So he looks good. But once he has to string s couple games together, the wheels fall off. Because defenses get the film, see he decides who to throw the ball to pre snap, then they jump the rout. In other words, he plays like he’s in college still too. If that’s your idea of a starter, then we’re not even speaking the same language.

          I’ll be Kirk Cousins biggest fan tomorrow if he shows he can be more than a flash in the pot, sustain success, and lead my team to victories. But it’s not there. If you want to be mad because there isn’t a good QB option in this roster, then fine. I personally think RG3 still has it in him somewhere, but the criticism is well deserved until he proves otherwise. But please, please don’t start this nonsense about Cousins being such an obvious quality starter. Because that’s not reality man. We’ve seen enough, we know what he is.

  2. timtowe - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:26 AM

    We have had enough samples of Griffin to know he is not an NFL caliber QB. He simply cannot play QB the way it needs to be played. I don’t understand why this guy gets so many chances. Nice guy yes. Good guy, seems like it. NFL QB? As a Redskin fan who was as excited as anybody when we got him…..NO. Is this something Gruden is willing to get fired for? Are we going or be the 2000 Ravens and run the ball 40 times a game, have RG3 throw 15 and win 10-6? Hardly. Grudens ego won’t make that work, and our defense is not that good.

    Let’s give Cousins a shot with the first team against 1st team defenses and see where it goes. This kinda reminds me of when we had Trent Green. We had an NFL caliber QB on our team buried at third string and didn’t know it. We screw with him contract-wise and he leaves…becomes more than a solid player with KC ( after the knee in STL). Who is going to believe in Cousins and let him take that team to the playoffs? I wish it were the Redskins.

    • 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:01 AM

      I wonder how much Kirk would have improved the last 2 years with all the first team reps he could have/should have had.

    • MC12 - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:39 AM

      You ask why? Because of the kings reason we gave up for him in the draft. That is not his fault but for once I can’t blame the owner for saying “I was told he would be the guy so exhaust every chance before we give up on him.”
      Sadly I see Gruden having to do what was rumored to have happened last year which is bench Griffin a few weeks in before he loses the locker room.

    • wncskinsfan - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:29 PM

      I think cousins gets that shot again. maybe the new qb coach and such will have developed him to a point of being a solid starter. I think we will find this out sooner or later. It’s just a matter of time, really.

    • joeyc252000 - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:00 PM

      The true question should be about Griffins leadership….is he a leader? When watching these games I just feel that when griffin is in the game, the offense looks uninspired. I can tell you one thing, Gruden will not adjust his offense to meet rg3’s strengths. He is adamant to make him a pocket passer even if it means griffin taking a beating. Once McCoy came in..the play calling changed and there were more rollouts on passing plays. You obviously have a player and coach who will not meet in the middle. ..both will be out of Washington next year if they can’t make it work.

  3. redskinmatt - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:38 AM

    Rich, you are always level-headed and well-reasoned when discussing this team, which is refreshing for a sport that is micro-analyzed to make snap judgments. That’s why I come tk this site every day. Keep up the great work.

  4. hk2000 - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:08 AM

    The two comments above not withstanding, The issue is not Griffin, or the O. Line! The issue is the M#$%^f#$g* DUMMY coach! I’ve been saying Zorn 2.0 for a while now, but we should all be so lucky.

    • 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:20 AM

      It’s PRESEASON genius… Say what you want about coaching or play call or what have you, but RG needs work bottom line. Can you take a guess at what he needs work on? I’ll give you a hint, its not bootlegs or read options. Yeah you guessed it! POCKET PRESENCE! How is Griffin ever going to get better at it if they constantly call what he’s good at? Rhetorical question… He’s not.

      • 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:29 AM

        Good or bad, they need tape on Griffin IN the pocket in game situations for flim study. Griff, you did this right, Griff you did that wrong, you should have done this you could have done that. Get it yet? The coach is doing his job. Not his fault there is more bad then good tape on Griffin to this point. Stop making excuses for him, put the shoe on the other foot. If it were Kirk taken before RG, and everything was switched would you still have Kirks’ back as much as you defend Griffins’. Chances are probably not.

        • hk2000 - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:45 PM

          OK, FINE, can you honestly look at what Griffin had around him Thurs. night and say “POCKET’ with a straight face?

        • hk2000 - Aug 22, 2015 at 3:02 PM

          To answer your question, absolutely! Before they drafted them, I had no idea who either one of them was. To say it’s not the coaches fault is ridiculous and only a non football person would claim such non-sense. To vindicate Gruden from any responsibility for not having better line play and better protection for the plays he’s calling, to see him standing on the sideline and looking so care-free, like he’s got everything under control while his first team line is looking like practice dummies, to see all that while knowing that the guy got the job under false pretenses of trying to develop their franchise QB, then proceeded to take their money while destroying any chance of said QB ever developing under him. To know all that and still say Gruden is the victim in this is just outrageous. I will keep pounding the drums to fire the moron until he’s gone.

        • 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 4:01 PM

          You sir, are what they call delusional.

        • hk2000 - Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM

          I guess anything that does not rhyme with what’s in your head is delusional- got it. Everything I stated is a direct established fact or deduced from an established fact.

      • berniebernard666 - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM

        LOL>………4th year in the NFL and you are still saying “RG needs work bottom line”. What’s wrong with that statement. LOL Think about it. Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Ryan Tannehill,

        • 214hof - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM

          It’s the sad pitiful truth. He was great running the college offense the Shanny’s installed year one, after that his play stunk worse then hot garbage. Make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day he is going into his 3rd season of being a “pocket passer” and still looks worse then a high school freshman.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:16 PM

          Aaron Rogers didn’t even start until his 4 season. Also from torn ACL/MCL tears, to dislocated ankles, RG3’s development has been delayed. So yeah he still needs both work and development.

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 23, 2015 at 4:15 AM

          @Bernie: Tannehill still needs quite a bit of work too. He just happens to play on a better all around team. And you just picked two really special, probably once in a generation, QBs to compare him to. I get they all came from the same draft, but 2012 was a very special QB draft class, not the norm. Wilson’s and Luck’s results aren’t even close to normal. But if you look at the entire NFL, backups included, most QBs are still developing after year 4, even those who start the whole time. We mentioned Tannehill, but you could say the same for Andy Dalton, Geno Smith, Blake Bortals, Derick Carr, Kap, Teddy Bridgewater, even Cam has a long way to go. I get that a couple of those guys haven’t played as long, but they aren’t where Wilson and Luck were at this point in their careers and everyone on that list still has work to do. I’m sure I’m forgetting some too. You could argue that a QB is never done learning, but I think we’re all talking about getting to the point where you help instead of hurt your team. Even Jay Cutler and Alex Smith still seem to be going through that transition. Some QBs even have the luxury of sitting their first couple years to develop in a safe bubble then get rolled out when they’re ready (like Rogers and Brady). But how do you think they would have looked if they started right away? I doubt they would look like the superstars they were from day 1. They just did their growing and took their lumps with the cameras off. So be reasonable. 2012 was a wash because they didn’t teach him a pro offense, it was basically another year in college. Then no offseason in 2013 and he was obviously hurt the whole year and couldn’t put all his weight on that leg to step into his throws. They also probably brought him back too early. That hurt his growth. Then a new coach and system in 2014. Then add the injury plus public flogging and the fact that he only played a handful of games, that hurt his growth. Finally in 2015 he gets his first EVER NFL QB coach (at least I don’t think he had one with Shannahan, please correct me if I’m wrong), and he gets a full offseason and year two in a system. So really, his 4 years aren’t the same as a lot of people’s 4 years. There’s other very real factors that hindered his growth that came from himself and from Snyder/Allen, but that’s a long discussion. My point is that, by all accounts, he’s grown and made progress this offseason. Is he behind the curve for a 4th year QB? Absolutely. But are there multiple good reasons for why? Yes. Is he developing now that those reasons are mostly gone? Yes. At least according to everyone I read who observed him in camp. So the guy is improving…. What else can he possibly do, that’s realistic, to help this team other than exactly what he’s doing?

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 1:47 PM

      The issue against the Lions was the OLine. Without a doubt. I can hardly believe people are trying to put RG3 on the hook for that when defenders were rushing his blindside unblocked.

      However, RG3’s problems in 2014 were not on the OLine. They weren’t great but they were good enough for a competent QB to work with. I’m a huge RG3 fan, but let’s come back to reality. 2014 was his fault, the game against the Lions was not. That was mostly on Smith.

      • Jax4 - Aug 22, 2015 at 5:33 PM

        Sorry, that argument doesn’t even tread water. Not with the production that McCoy and Cousins put up.You cannot honestly say the line was all the problem. Sure they had issues but when you see what McCoy and Cousins did with the same and worse lines, it all comes into focus

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:26 PM

          I understand why you would say that. But please go back and watch the game again. Watch what RG3 was putting up with. Defenders were going unblocked with a straight line to him in less than two seconds. I actually have to go back and re watch all of Cousins and McCoy’s snaps from the game, but from what I remember and what I’ve heard, they weren’t dealing with that. There was pressure every single snap, and it was coming fast. So while the players may have been the same or worse (allegidly worse anyway) the result of the line play was different. I’m not talking about the QB play, but how well the line did at pass protection. It improved the second Griffin left the field. Maybe that’s because they watched their QB get hurt and it lit a fire under their ass (pretty good chance of Smith getting cut if he let Detroits D take out another one of our QBs), maybe the big runs by Jones and Thompson pumped them up and they started playing better, maybe (like Rich said in the article) they finally made enough adjustments and things started clicking. Or maybe they just don’t want to play for RG3 and they started playing once he was off the field. Pick your reason, I personally think it’s the latter. But you can’t watch RG3’s series and honestly tell me Cousins or McCoy could have done better in the face of that kind of pressure. If you do, I say you’re seeing what you wanted and not what really happened.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 23, 2015 at 11:14 AM

          Seriously? It’s preseason and while Gruded adjusted the scheme to curtail the pressure, the running game picked up AGAINST Detroit backups! It’s your response that
          Doesn’t tree water and sunk like a rock

  5. gasngo14 - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:29 AM

    Bob just don’t have it!!
    So when will this organization make the move to move forward ? Let’s see what Bob does with the # 2’s ……HA!!

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:22 PM

      I honestly don’t hate the idea of playing him vs the 2s and 3s. To maybe help him get some momentum going. But only if it’s not a bloodbath like it was against the Lions. It also should never be that bad. No QB should have to play behind a line like that. It would also be nice to see Cousins play against the 1s for a nice comparison.

      I don’t, however, actually think this is a good idea. I don’t think Cousins or McCoy are the answer. And all it would accomplish is igniting anther giant QB controversy circus. Like it or not, RG3 starting is our best hope of having a decent season. Not because I think he’s a great QB, I just think that’s how bad the guys behind him are. Maybe if he can get a decent few series against the 1s it wouldn’t be so bad to leave him in against the 2s to let him keep rolling and build some confidence.

  6. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:55 AM

    Baltimore will be another tough test for the O.L.

    Just as well, might as well expose all the issues in the preseason.
    ~

  7. dcfaninecuador - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:12 AM

    Firtst of all, for all you Snyder bashers. Yes, he was the east coast version of jerry jones. The owner everybody loves to hate. But this year, THIS YEAR, he has finally done the right thing, hired a football mind as GM and is letting him do his job. There have been no, I repeat, NO REPORTS, of the typical Snyder meddling of years past. So, Snyder is not in the background, whispering in Scot’s ear, telling him how to run the team. I, nor any of us, btw, were in on the negotiations, but I’ll bet the farm one of the absolutes scot required was full control over personnel decisions. The guy had a a profitable and successful scouting service. I don’t think he would give it up just to be somebody’s hand puppet. Griffin has the most potential of any of the QBs. He must be given an opportunity. Management would be stupid to give up on the guy after two (not counting 2012) injury plagued seasons with a vastly inferior, untalented team. Look, a talented team can even make a Tim Tebow look decent…once. And, this is Scot’s first year. He’s not gonna come in and make wholesale changes. He’s got to observe, learn and evaluate what he has. He addressed the defense first, now let’s evaluate the offense (with some new coaches) and what has to be done next year. And for all you people calling for Gruden’s head…I never see who you’d replace him with… Let’s see… Successful, but unproven in NFL college coach… Oh yeah, Spurrier. Successful, former NFL head coach. Hmmmm, Gibbs 2.0, Shanahan. Ummm, successful NFL coordinator, Jim Zorn anyone? Even Jim Harbaugh wore out his welcome. Point is, everybody, from players to coaches are a crapshoot. This team needs one full year under McCloughan for him to study, reset and reboot, if necessary…but he needs that year.

    • timtowe - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:32 AM

      They will all go down if they don’t have a QB. The lack of a QB has been the death kneel of several very good coaches…and GMs. We don’t have a good QB…and I’m starting tho think we don’t have a good coach either. GM….TBD…if we drafted a FLIPPING GUARD with the fifth pick and he gets manhandled like he did against the Lions..the GM won’t be around either.

      • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:32 AM

        Not to be pedantic…scratch that!: To be pedantic, it´s death knell, as in the sound a bell makes.

      • Herowing83 - Aug 22, 2015 at 1:13 PM

        Morgan Moses was getting killed last year. He looked awful!!!! Then he got hurt with a lisfranc injury like the Safety Phillip Thomas had for about two years. A year later he pops out of nowhere and pushes a 5th overall pick out of the way and becomes a starter. And he has looked pretty good!! Brandon Sherif is going to need atleast a year to get his feet under him good. He is going to take his lumps. With all that being said, Brandon is still probably better than Chris Chester who would get pushed back into the Qb just like Brandon did all the time!!!!

    • hail74 - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:42 AM

      I agree and will add that the most obvious reason for the skins being consistently mired in mediocrity is the impulsive nature of Snyder to just fire coaches after 2-3 years. You can’t build a winning team if that formula is changing all the time. I’m sure Cleveland regrets firing belicheck while Cincinnati and Dallas are glad they stayed the course through the tough years. It’s amazing how many fans think just like Snyder but hate him for doing exactly what they would do.

      • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:56 AM

        Top shelf!

      • Trey Gregory - Aug 23, 2015 at 3:56 AM

        @hail 74, that last part about fans acting the same as Snyder is actually a great point. Pretty spot on.

    • gonavybeatarmy - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:45 AM

      During his leadership, 14.72% of Jones’ draft picks have been selected for a Pro Bowl, by far the best percentage of any executive in the league including people like Bill Belichik, Ozzie Newsome, John Schneider, Ted Thompson AND McCloughan. His teams have won three Super Bowls during his leadership, and were a very controversial catch in January from appearing in the conference championship game in Seattle, where the Cowboys won last year during the regular season. Who really believes the Skins will be better than Dallas this season? And Jones played major college football for one of the greatest coaches in history.

      All Skins fans are pleased with the hiring of McCloughan, and believe he’ll eventually clean up this the sixteen year stench that Snyder is responsible for. But to compare Snyder to Jones is an absolutely offensive insult…to Jones.

      • hail74 - Aug 22, 2015 at 1:43 PM

        Those numbers are easily inflated by the years Jimmie Johnson and bill parcells were running the show and that the pro bowl votes are always slanted towards popular teams

        • gonavybeatarmy - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:42 PM

          You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

          Over the last ten drafts from years 2005 to 2014, (which includes just the final two years of Parcells e.g. two years of Parcells and eight years without Parcells), the Cowboys actually have an even higher rate of drafting pro bowlers than the impressive NFL best rate of 14.72% that Jones has achieved over the time he has owned the team. From the draft years 2005 to 2014, the Cowboys have drafted the most pro bowl players (13) and have the highest pro bowl hit rate of 16.3% (13 pro bowlers in 80 selections). New Orleans and Loomis are second at 15.7% (9 of 60), KC is third at 13.6% (11/81) followed by San Diego at 13.2% (9/68).

          To equate Jones with Snyder is to equate caviar with a tuna sandwich.

        • hail74 - Aug 22, 2015 at 4:52 PM

          Pro bowlers drafted by Jones.
          Martin,Frederick,Smith,Murray,Bryant,Jenkins,Bennett,Spencer,Folk. Bennett went to the pro bowl with Chicago not Dallas so not sure why you’d give him credit for that. Jones traded 3 picks to get spencer who only made 1 appearance in the PB as a replacement for Matthews. Folk(K) was far from best kicker that year but made it off of inflated XP kicks. Jenkins was another alternate who made it once despite being 12th in ints that year. Again pro bowl is just as much a popularity contest as any other all star game. Having said that nobody needs convincing that Snyder knows nothing about running a football franchise.

    • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 11:02 AM

      “Inferior, untalented team”

      Wasn´t this largely the team he played with in 2012? If anything there was more talent on the 2014 team than on the 2012 team. I just don´t buy this argument at all. Doing well with a team´s weaknesses is how you succeed in this league. Camouflaging the worst weaknesses and playing to your strengths. WR, RB, lines. This team is full of strenghts. You just need a coach and a QB able to utilize them. It´s that simple.

      • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 22, 2015 at 5:25 PM

        In 2012 they played to the QB’s strength wich is play action and bootlegs. These plays also slow the Pass Rush and help cover up the team’s weakness the Oline Here is a Copy and paste from Football Outsiders article 2014 play action pass

        Over the last three years, Washington has been the most schizophrenic play-action offense. Since 2012, the Redskins have yo-yoed from first to 30th and back up to fourth in play-action DVOA. Their 55.1% DVOA was 78.2% higher than their -23.0% DVOA on non-play-action passes, the league’s biggest improvement by nearly 14 percent. Despite being so much better on play-action, though, Washington’s usage rate declined for the third straight season, falling all the way to 22 percent after it sat at 42 percent just two seasons ago. Got all that?

        Of Washington’s three quarterbacks, these play-action splits pointed fairly clearly at one player. Robert Griffin III compiled a bevy of unsuccessful plays in 2014, but play-action was a safe haven for the beleaguered quarterback. RG3 compiled a 56 percent adjusted success rate on 68 play-action passes, well above the combined 38 percent rate from Kirk Cousins and Colt McCoy on 71 such attempts. There’s usually a strong plexiglass effect with big play-action DVOA swings, so this isn’t necessarily the panacea that will goose Griffin’s stagnant career. But Jay Gruden’s play-calling came under fire a bit during his inaugural D.C. campaign, and given the success Griffin experienced with play action his rookie season, this seems like a prime area where Gruden could help his quarterback.

        A good Coach calls plays that are geared towards his players Strengths you work on a players weaknesses during practice and in the Off season to expand that players ability but you dont call plays that expose your team’s weaknesses just because thats what you want to call Every good coach changes his offense to maximize his players Strengths. Gruden refuses to do this as shown by the huge drop off in play action calls

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM

          Alright then. But that´s not a problem with an “inferior, untalented team”.

        • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:59 PM

          Tim, let’s look at ONLY last Thursday’s game. Gruden called just one play action pass for Griffin – on first down a down where Gruden had previously only called running plays this entire preseason. Willie Smith got blocked from left tackle into the passing lane which was right of center. Smith’s man knocked the ball down at the line of scrimmage. There were just two other times where it made sense to run play action. The first down after Alf’s nine yard run and the 3rd and 2 where Griffin got hit as he threw. All of the other plays were 2nd and long and 3rd and longer. One out of three is good ratio albeit a small sample size.

          Now, two reasons why Gruden didn’t need to call more play action attempts for Griffin. 1. Griffin is good at PA so it isn’t necessary to call it. 2. Griffin isn’t competing for a starting job, so the preseason isn’t a time to showcase his strengths. I think he did call the one play because both Griffin and the o-line were struggling and Gruden wanted to get the team on track. Didn’t work.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:15 PM

          Bang I was responding to the team is the same or better than 2012 comment. This Coach seems unwilling to change his offense to suit his players. If he wanted to get a scoring he could have spread them out, called a draw, play action earlier, Pistol formations, read option, and Bootlegs all these things slow the pass rush he does none of them until Cousins or McCoy is in. Now I do know that their are other circumstances that prevented some of those calls thursday night but not the others. Yes it may be easier to call those plays for Cousins and McCoy because they are playing lesser talent but if thats the case then why not call all the straight dropbacks for them when you know the defense is teeing off. I’m calling B.S. on this one it was obviously 2 different offenses being called. My only other thought is maybe they have 2 different people calling plays for the 1st team and the 2nd team because they want to give someone else experience calling plays to evaluate them. If thats the case they need the guy calling plays for the backups calling plays for the starters, because the guy doing it now sucks.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:21 PM

          Also Bang you work on your weaknesses in practice not out in public for other teams to take note. This Coach should be calling plays to cover up our weaknesses and tailor the offense to our strengths even in a preseason game were the plays are vanilla you can still do this see the backups. They are Obviously calling 2 different Offenses

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:45 PM

      I can appreciate your other points. But comparing Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder is a little crazy. I’m not a big Jerry Jones fan, but he is the Cowboy’s GM, Snyder isn’t. Do they both meddle with their teams too much? Yes. But that’s about the only thing they have in common. At least Jones can say he’s the GM to justify it.

      I’m not convinced that Snyder is pulling any strings in 2015 either, but I’m also not convinced he’s not. Or if he’s not, that it won’t stay that way if there’s not instant results. I truly hope that he’s learned his lesson, and that he’s given control over to Scot too. Also that he’s striped Bruce Allen of all football decesions. But I don’t think any of us will truly know either way until a year or two from now.

  8. Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:14 AM

    If the experiment with pocket passing is what is making Griffin and the offense look so bad then I suggest they put it on hold. If Griffin had played well last year no one would mind some stinkers now. But the way he looked against Detroit was exactly how he looked against Tampa last season and with many of last year´s problems on fuller display than ever before. Personally I´ve had enough of it. He needs to take the field and prove to everyone that he can play at all. And he needs a good game. Desperately.

    • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM

      Even if Griffin had not suffered any injuries since his successful campaign as a rookie running the read option, it is not something that can be done the same way anymore.

      Remember how well he made that fake handoff to Morris? Fooled the TV cameras all the time…did he keep it or make the handoff?

      The league changed (“clarified”) the rules. A QB running that play lost all his special QB protection, the defense could just plow into him no matter what.

      http://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/09/05/nfl-read-option-quarterbacks-tackled
      ~

      • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:25 AM

        I did not know that. But even if this wasn´t the case, the likelihood of a repeat performance of Griffin´s 2012 season is pretty close to zero by now, after injuries and in a new system. Even the team is new. His speed seems to be gone too. Either that or he hesitates too much.
        Right now though nobody on his offense seems to be on the same page and that reminds me of last season a lot more than I had hoped. We can debate the whys of the situation till we´re blue in the face. But nobody can deny the obvious anymore: it isn´t working, whatever it is they´re trying to do.
        I`m just doing rain dances over here hoping that this is not how it´ll look when the season starts. If it is this will be one long autumn.

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

          Just to specify the obvious, I was talking about the first string, which is looking 100% dysfunctional at the moment..

    • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:31 PM

      Skulb: I am now with you on this. I’ve had enough. I’m just so, so sick of this roller coaster. It seems painfully obvious that RG3 is not going to succeed in Washington. I believe in the guy and want the best for him. I think that would be to move on. Because I also want my team to win. I don’t know what the deal is. It seemed, to me, that the offensive players are done with him and just don’t show up when he’s under center. I mean, pass protection immediately improved when he left the field. It’s not fair to Griffin to put him through that, and it’s certainly not fair to the fans. I’m ready for a mercy kill. I still don’t think we will be so much better off with Cousins as the starter, but at least there would be some stability and I could stop watching my School’s heisman winner get murdered every time he steps on the field. It’s just gotten to be too much.

      • Skulb - Aug 23, 2015 at 10:26 AM

        It´s easy to dump all over the line, but I am starting to think they just aren´t sure what Griffin will do or where he´ll be. And it creates confusion and hesitation. And any of that and boom you have a sack.
        I just looked at the three sacks again like you told me. On the first one Scherff was manhandled and pushed back into Griffin and on the second one Smith was bypassed as if he was a dummy on the training field.
        But go look at those again and watch Griffin´s footwork. or should I say non-footwork. He basically does a floppy half step on both plays and that´s it. The pressure came after exactly 2 seconds on both occasions, and that is at least 0,5 seconds too fast normally. But he would probably not have been sacked if he had taken three proper steps in those dropbacks instead of a half step.
        I mean it´s obviously a simplification of a complex situation, but the reason for drop backs is to give receivers time to run downfield. A half step means you´re planning on making a quick pass. Three steps is intermediary and five steps long, pending reads and all sorts of things obviously. My point is that if you take a half step and still have the ball after two seconds you´re already pushing it. There will be people at you or close to it in two seconds unless you either scramble or drop back properly. There is definitely blame to share here. Yes the line was trashy but so was Griffin.

        The third sack was all on Griffin though. Pressure after three seconds on that one and you really have to either run or get rid of the ball in that time. It´s also interesting that on his one completion in the last drive he threw the ball at four seconds. There was no pressure, but it´s too slow anyway. This can not be the intended TTP on intermediate plays. If it is you will get sacked. Loads and loads.

  9. berniebernard666 - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:19 AM

    the problem is easily solved but the Skins are stuck in tradition and the old saying “well that’s just not the way things are done”.

    But all they have to do is send the 2nd team out there to start in Baltimore and in the 2nd half send the first team and Griffin out to play against the Ravens 2nd team. Then equal will be equal and we should see Griffin light it up and look like the BEST quarterback in the NFL….just like Cousins does.

    • berniebernard666 - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:20 AM

      of course that won’t happen because Griffin might fail against the 2nd team.

  10. bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:25 AM

    “He needs to take the field and prove to everyone that he can play at all. And he needs a good game. Desperately.”

    THIS is the truth. The key word is everyone. This mostly includes the fans. The fans have seen this before and even though there are many things different (no DJax, Jordan Reed, Trent Williams, or Chris Chester – hooray! or so we thought) the result in the 1st quarter Thursday was the same as the whole of last year with Griffin. Could not run the ball on first down. Could not protect the quarterback on 2nd and long. Didn’t have a chance to convert on 3rd and a million. Of course, Griffin is the only part of this equation that hasn’t improved. Not so fast, shouldn’t we be better on 1st down in the run game in a preseason game? Not without your starting left tackle against the number 2 defense from last year. Does anyone really think that Detriot’s defense isn’t going to miss Ndumakong Suh? I doubt Detroit will be top five against the run this year. Nobody gets a pass for last game. As much as I’d like to buy in to what Rich is selling (the offense can’t sustain that kind of dead fish rot over the course of a game) and the fact that I’m a guy who sees the silver lining in most things the writing is on the wall for a Redskin team without Trent Williams and DJax. Trent Williams makes the team SOO MUCH better. But is he enough? No. He’s what takes the team from being 0-16 to 3-13 or 4-12. Jackson might add another win or two. Somehow, I’m sticking with 7-9 for the year because maybe it isn’t time for snap judgements. There are two other sides of the ball that could actually be better.

    • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:57 AM

      People keep excusing it with the first string, second string argument. But the way it looked on Thursday I think the first string would have looked dysfunctional on an empty field. The timing is just not there on anything when Griffin is on and everyone looks confused. With Cousins and McCoy on the field you don´t see that. Good or bad, and good or bad opponents, at least the second string looked a lot like a team that knows what they´re doing.
      I was bullish at 6-10 before the PS games, but right now I´m down to like 3-13 here. And I really do think it would be borderline irresponsible to send Griffin out to start with this team when it´s so out of sync just a few weeks before the season opener. The entire NFL has him figured out and he can´t deal with it. They just blitz, blitz, blitz until he goes out on a stretcher. And the reason they can do that is that he is unable to rid himself of the ball quickly. That´s how you punish the blitz and he just can´t do it right now if his life depended on it.

      • ET - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:24 PM

        And I really do think it would be borderline irresponsible to send Griffin out to start with this team when it´s so out of sync just a few weeks before the season opener.

        Unfortunately, unless something changes radically in the next few weeks, I’m inclined to agree with you. The first team’s performance in the last game was a trainwreck.

      • warpath1 - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:53 PM

        so you think he doesnt need the practice, or you think we start Kirk for the preseason and start griffin for week 1???

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:57 PM

          I obviously think we start Kirk/McCoy this season and I have said it very clearly here ever since Thursday. But the politics and the whole situation leads me to think it´ll be Griffin anyway. And he must perform at least adequately or he will be benched again within one to three games.
          What I think will happen now is that either McCoy or Kirk will start against Baltimore and Griffin will be the one who comes on against the backups.
          He has been so bad in the two first games that it would shock me if they don´t try the two others out as starters in the next two games, to see if that solves some of the problems. I can´t imagine anyone in the organization being interested in stepping on the field September 13th looking like Griffin & company did on Thursday. It´s embarrassing to watch even during preseason.

      • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:29 PM

        You’re entitled to make those opinions on 16 snaps in a preseason missing key cogs on the 1st team. It may even be the right opinion however premature.

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 3:02 PM

          Well quite. I wouldn´t be this negative though if this wasn´t exactly how the team looked last season when it was at its worst. The precision just is not there. And judging by how the team reacts to this lack of precision I think they have lost confidence in Griffin now, whatever they may say in public. They folded like a cheap tent against Detroit and instead of just him messing it up the entire offense was off.
          Can you really blame them though with a completion % in the 40s?

          I just went through his two series against Cleveland to analyze the passing plays:

          First series three and out. 50% of the plays were passing plays. Short pass came out in good speed and was completed. Second was good but Garcon dropped it. Third was way too high and incomplete.
          Second series went better. Got a first down and three points.7 Running plays and 5 passing plays.
          First pass was short and fast, complete. Second was a scramble and much too slow. Ball barely out for a good completion but Griffin took an unnecessary hit. Then three incompletions in a row. Two quick throws; very poor, followed by a slower, just as poor throw. The second two were Griffin´s only red zone passes so far this season.
          Of all his passes only the two quick completions were good. His incompletion to Garcon was also good so we´ll give Griffin that one. There was also the scramble pass which was technically good and a completion but unnecessarily slow and therefore risky. The rest of his passes were awful.

          The less said about the Detroit game the better of course. But even without that Griffin looks very shaky and imprecise.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 6:01 PM

          Skull, I can’t believe it has to be explained to a fan who boast his football knowledge that there are levels of pressure that are indefensible where no QB will do well. Out of the six QB hits only the last two RG3 could have done better on. There was one he made a great pass under duress that Roberts dropped. That’s not an excuse but a fact. Watch the replay without your ‘cut RG3’ blinders on. Regarding pressure that a QB must manage, well that also depends on the routes. There were many hits that occurred before receivers were not turned to make a catch. You had a few pressures where either Thompson was on the wrong side or Will Smith was blocking the wrong guy. The blocking was a complete and utter mess and impossible to sustain a drive with the aid of another dropped pass. Come back to a rational state of mind or consider watching the games a second time before making such ridiculous assessment on who is to blame. man I wish some of you had as much common sense as passion for this team

        • gasngo14 - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:32 PM

          Bob is done …The BIG question is how long until this organization moves on from the BIG mistake of giving up 4 BIG picks for him …NFL RECORD for one lousy player!!!!!!

    • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:07 PM

      And yes Trent was out but the first team wasn´t all that great in Cleveland either. Three points and the same difficulty moving the offense, only not quite so bad, for a grand total of 44 yards in seven series. Griffin`s average rating in these two games was 55, with a completion rating of 6-13, or ca 45%, and three sacks. Trent can only do so much here. Only one of those sacks came from Willie Smith´s side; the other two from advancing poorly into a retreating line and fumbling the snap respectively. It is not normal for a starting QB to have this much trouble, regardless of injuries, first and second string etc. It was simply awful when Griffin was on. You have to ask the question just how much time this guy is going to need to be able to perform adequately.

      • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM

        Keim has a post on what happened with each of RGIII’s dropbacks.

        http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/19189/blame-spread-around-on-rough-passing-night-by-redskins-qb-rg-iii

        The line was as feeble as we all remember. But there’s this, too:

        Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer 22h22 hours ago

        Line was bad, but watching RG3, pocket presence still needs a lot of work. He doesn’t feel the rush, was a sitting duck back there.
        —–
        ~

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:53 PM

          To plagiarize ET it was a train wreck. But the slow release of the ball is definitely in there as well, and not just the pocket presence. I haven´t rewatched the PS games to time the TTPs, but my guess without studying it would be that Cousins is still on average about 0,3-0,5 seconds faster than Griffin off the snap. And that would be the difference between a sack and no sack on the play where the left side broke down. So it wouldn´t have been a sack with Trent on the field. But it also wouldn´t have been a sack with Cousins or probably McCoy on the field because the ball would have been out by then.

      • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:48 PM

        Stats? Had Garcon caught a ball that hit him in the chest – poor placement or not – Griffin would’ve been 5 for 7 for 97 yards and a TD. (The drive would’ve ended eliminating the 3rd down incompletion that followed the drop.) All of the sacks are on Griffin and the incompletions as well, but Smith did give up the pressure on the second sack against 2nd teamers, btw. Bull rushed straight into Griffin. Smith also allowed pressure that caused two incompletions: on the 3rd and 2 pass that Griffin was hit as he threw it – causing it to go backward and the one play-action attempt on first down where Smith was driven into the passing lane on the right from the left tackle spot. Smith’s man batted the ball at the line of scrimmage.

        So you have your stats for reasons for your opinion and I have my reasons for patience. I don’t deny that the first team looked like shite against Detroit but some of these reasons can be fixed. However, if Griffin – as he did on the play that got him injured – passes (er, ignores) open receivers to try to make a super hero play on 3rd and 16 and doesn’t protect the ball, then change will come.

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 3:23 PM

          Funny how his stats get better with time. Against Cleveland he was 3/8 and would have been 4/8 if Garcon had caught the long pass, which he should have done. And five of his eight passes would still have been bad because the completion on the scramble was horribly late so he took a hit. It´s still bad alright, and you can´t even blame the line for it.
          Of course he got more pressure from Detroit. But that´s the job. The way you react to it is with precise quick throws to the first read. If you do that well you will force the defense into coverage so you get more time. Griffin is neither precise nor quick so they just kept rushing him. It´s just what you do to rookie quarterbacks who can´t react well to pressure. Might as well polish those sack stats right?
          They tried that with McCoy a couple of times too. But the footwork was too good and the passes too precise so rushing didn´t pay off. He even scrambled like a boss for a first down once. Rush all you want because you´re just getting burned. It´s certainly not just because the reserves came on like people are fooling themselves here. Good QBs know what to do with pressure.

        • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:04 PM

          Skulb, it must be the conversion from the metric system which has your Cleveland modified stats all askew.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 6:09 PM

        Only an novious football fan uses stats in preseason games. You’re embarrassing yourself every time you do that.

        These are vanilla offenses and defenses during a time when players are working to prepare for the season. How many times have teams became Super Bowl winners or playoff teams coming out of preseason with losing records and subpar performances by starters?

        • Skulb - Aug 22, 2015 at 6:20 PM

          “Novious” isn´t a word. Anyway, people making excuses for Griffin led me to demonstrate that they were wrong using available stats. Nothing embarrassing about it.
          We are not talking about a normal starter but one who played exactly this way during last year´s regular season and statistically the 33rd best QB in the NFL in 2014.
          This is not just a “vanilla”offense. It is a pattern continuing. Bad footwork, can´t find receivers, lack of precision when the ball does come out. Same old same old.

          I´ll apologize to you and/or be embarrassed when RGIII wins the Superbowl. For now you can spare me your condescension.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:51 PM

          I’m not being condescending to you but expect better from someone I’ve agreed with in the past and when I didn’t your comments seemed sensible. I understand your frustrations on comments towards Couisins and supported some of your positions about crediing him for his perdormance, However I think you’re going in the wrong direction on RG3 comments

          Btw – using my phone making comments so there will be typos

        • Skulb - Aug 23, 2015 at 10:42 AM

          I don´t mind people disagreeing with me at all. Football is a complex thing to analyze obviously and no matter what you will be wrong from time to time. But just go back yourself and look at his snaps against Detroit, paying close attention to his footwork. Apparently he just can not do proper dropbacks. I have the first two sacks as a combination of rotten protection from the linemen and Griffin´s failure to drop back three steps while reading the field. He did have people open on first read both times. And he should have gone for first read because he didn´t perform a three-step dropback. I mean you can´t take the snap and then just stand there for two seconds even if the line is good. You have to either move or pass the dang ball. Maybe you´re right and I´m wrong. But I just think he makes it much too easy for the opposing defenses when he plays like this.
          And the third sack was just a total trainwreck from Robert and he did nothing right on that play. Maybe that was him being concussed though. But either way he absolutely has to time his passes with his dropbacks. The longer back he goes the more time he will have available to him to read the field and find a pass. If he can´t get rid of the ball in two seconds then he has to drop back more ti buy the time he needs. Like you I don´t understand why I am having to explain this. Isn´t it like little league level stuff right here?

          As for my “cut Griffin blinders” I put them on in a polemical exchange with someone intent on blaming Gruden for deliberately trying to injure Griffin. This was so ridiculous to me I sharpened my actual position which is that Griffin has to sort out the basics if he is going to start games for the Redskins. And that includes his weirdly inept dropback process.And if he can not then yes McCoy or Cousins should start instead.

      • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:08 PM

        Maybe only one sack came from Smith but multiple hits and big time pressure came him him. In fact most of the pressure came from Smith. When I re-watched the game my jaw was on the floor watching Smith. He was just terrible. So yeah only one sack, but that wasn’t his only mistake of the night.

        I’ve said this somewhere else but I’ll say it again. Go back and watch the hits Griffin took. On two in particular

      • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:12 PM

        Maybe only one sack came from Smith but multiple hits and big time pressure came him him. In fact most of the pressure came from Smith. When I re-watched the game my jaw was on the floor watching Smith. He was just terrible. So yeah only one sack, but that wasn’t his only mistake of the night.

        I’ve said this somewhere else but I’ll say it again. Go back and watch the hits Griffin took. On two in particular, his head hit the turf and it looks like he could have been concussed. So, I know the play looked bad, especially that last fumble, but there is a real chance he was out there playing with a head injury for multiple plays before he was taken out. I mean, he had a receiver wide open like 6 feet in front of him on that last play. He’s been bad at finding open receivers, but not that bad man. Instead of throwing the ball he tries to scramble and drops it? That’s not even normal for him. I know it’s easy to want to burn the guy when he plays bad, but give him some credit. I didn’t even see contact made with his head on that last play. I think he was playing concussed.

        • Skulb - Aug 23, 2015 at 9:51 AM

          Yes but it has to be a confidence/rhythm issue here. They all looked like rookies in the first quarter, no matter who the opposing players were. All I´m trying to say is that the first string looks like it´s about the worst one in the league right now. And it isn´t just the line. We spent all last year complaining about that, drafted high to improve it and it still blows.

          So yeah it was terrible from both Smith and Scherff. But when it comes to Griffin he HAS TO get rid of the ball quickly no matter what, so opposing D-lines don´t tee off on him like this. They can see his tape right, and they all know how he´s been struggling with speed, footwork, dropbacks and pass precision in the pocket for a long time. That the line obviously wasn´t ready for the amount of pressure they got from Detroit is their fault. But I think not reacting to the pressure with quick screens, designed scrambles or more runs is a coaching/QB issue. This is what they´ll be facing in week 1 and they look far from ready.

    • ET - Aug 22, 2015 at 12:15 PM

      It’s clear that having Trent on the field is important to this team at this juncture. But I think Willie Smith played himself out of a job. Terrible, just terrible.

      Scherff has some work to do, but the upside is there. Moses has looked pretty good. And Lauvao has looked better, as far as I can tell. So I still feel cautiously optimistic about the OL, though it may very well take some big lumps in the first two regular season games. But there is talent on the line, even beyond Mr. Trent Williams.

      • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:22 PM

        Agreed. There is talent – just like there is at the QB position, however. Still, the question about the talent on the line at this point is a matter of when not if. What is lost in the knee-jerk reactions is that we could be significantly better defensively and possibly special teams could contribute.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:37 PM

        Great point ET. When you watch these preseason games you look at the game to assess where players are doing well and where not then how they need to improve before regular season. When the season starts some players that looked great will suffer others that struggled will shine. It happens every year .Like how the running game is doing may not look as explosive and eh surprise where the rookie. This also the time to expect young linemen to struggle and our new o-line coach to fix. Unlike you, there are fans out there taking a few series and coming to conclusions that this player needs to sart, the team hasn’t changed from last season, RG3 can’t play, and other doom and gloom nonsense.
        I love how these fans can draw conclusions about a player’s development on justin a few series without seeing a single practice. Most of those fan critics wouldn’t know how to hold a clipboard right side up standing on a sideline.

        • gasngo14 - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:59 PM

          i told you so !!

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:17 PM

          Man, the comments I’ve seen about Scherff being a bust or being terrible are ridiculous. I can’t believe the conclusions people think they can draw from two lousy pre season games. It’s all we have, so sure, let’s talk about it. But let’s not make any swooping statements about how a rookie won’t ever be able to play after two preseason games.

          I’m actually still quite pleased and optimistic with the way the right side of the line played. Not brilliant, but you can tell the potential is there and it’s coming together.

  11. Trey Gregory - Aug 22, 2015 at 1:36 PM

    Rich: thank you for adding a voice of reason to this discussion. Just as it was completely unreasonable to declare the Redskins a playoff team during OTAs and minicamp, it’s way too early and unreasonable to say they’re going to be flat out awful at this point.

  12. wncskinsfan - Aug 22, 2015 at 2:40 PM

    we just need to sit back and watch our fav team play. This is going to be an interesting, and I think tough year. Either due to injury or lack of performance, they will continue to stir the pot, as this team is very much a work in progress. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see (obviously) Grif get pulled or go down, Cousins get another chance to show if he has developed into a starter . . .I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gruden get yanked in the season, either. I don’t think anybody is safe other than Scot and some of the players . . . for this season. We are looking at a multi year process here, clearly. Rookies are going to come up (Scherff), veterans are going to go down (Hayward) . . . at the end of the day it’s football . . . and Washington has a lot of work to do. A whole lot. That is my take away from a small sample size.

  13. redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 5:07 PM

    Well in two preseason games we’ve seen the good and bad in this team. It looks like the skins can run the ball regardless of the line or running back. But I can’t say the same about the passing game.

    Many critics of RG3 must be watching the game with a scope and the cross hairs are solely on Robert. No blame assessed on the line or play calling.

    In those ugly 8 passing attempts there is both praise and criticism to be made on the starting QB.

    Both fumbles were in excusable and RG3 must correct those. The last two pass attempts were also on RG3 because he ahold have rolled to his right instead stepping into the pocket. He could have bought more time.

    The pass attempt where the LB was not picked was a great play by RG3 where he saw the pressure and hung on to release as great pass to Roberts only two see a second starting receiver in as many weeks drop a pass that hit him right in the hands. Inspire of the atrocious blocking he is getting the ball out quicker than last season.

    The biggest issue with RG3 from that game was letting the pressure cause him to revert back to his old habits as as displayed in the last two passing attempts. It’s not the pressure he sees that brings out the worst in him, it’s the pressure he doesn’t see or the phantom pressure he creates when rattled

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 5:11 PM

      Forgot to add in his last play he should have hung in the pocket instead of moving out without the football. He created the injury himself but the line laid the way for the lack of trust in their ability to protect.

      That was the worst two series of pass protection I can recall ever seen.

  14. redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 22, 2015 at 5:38 PM

    Okay to some of the craziness out there I read here the last week, I want to thank you for the laughs. From the cut RG3 now, RG3 not calling audibles at the line , I hope he gets hurt playing Baltimore, QB ratings on partial games played in preseason games to the Gruden is sabotaging RG3 please get a grip

    first of all audibles at the line are rarely called in preseason games with both vinnila offenses and defense. Also audibles would be very difficult to call right for any QB when your line is getting beat one on one. It wasn’t like Detroit was applying complex blitz packages to react on.

    The wishing for an RG3 injury is also the one calling him a BOY emphasizing caps. How he is allowed to make these comments surprises me because Rich normally doesn’t tolerate such trolls.

    Did any one considered that after RG3 was injured that Gruden moved to options and rollouts to avoid another QB injury. Call him slow to the punch on the adjustment but to suggest there is intent on ruining RG3 I reserve to some fans here and not the coach. Some of the pressure may have been also slowed once the running game got going.

    • gasngo14 - Aug 22, 2015 at 7:38 PM

      Bob is done …The BIG question is how long until this organization moves on from the BIG mistake of giving up 4 BIG picks for him …NFL RECORD for one lousy player!!!!!!

      • bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 8:37 PM

        The circus has left town. As entertaining as it was to have “Vinny the dancing monkey” calling the shots and then the spiteful red-faced man, before Bruce Almighty. We finally have a real GM. Real GMs don’t sign radio hosts to be the third tight-end. (Would’ve been a great story, wouldn’t it?) Instead they trade a 5th rounder for a TE no one has heard about and then gives that TE the radio host’s old number. Real GMs also don’t abandon a plan after an abysmal performance in the preseason. They follow it through. We may not agree with the plan or the tactics (drafting a guard 5th, really?) but we can be assured that that plan will be followed through. We haven’t seen that commitment to a plan since Charley Casserly and most of us are in some sort of withdraw. It would be nice to abandon a former 1st rounder for the apple-pie QB with golden hair. It would be nice to have that radio host play tight-end. It would be nice to have your 1st rounder get a sack-and-a-half, a safety, and four tackles for a loss in a meaningless preseason game instead of getting rolled like a desert cart into the starting quarterback. But Scot McCloughan is going to build his team and he’s not going to take any short cuts. He’s going to build strong lines on both sides of the ball. He’s going to try to get some return on the RG3 investment. He may even wait as long as he did on Alex Smith. And he’s going to sign who he thinks best for each position on the field. So lament if you must about the quarterback. Make all the decrees you need to in order to feel superior. Scot M isn’t listening. He’s just plodding away at his plan probably drinking Scotch. Cheers! Here’s a toast to Scot’s plan and the memory of the circus.

        • gasngo14 - Aug 22, 2015 at 9:01 PM

          well we still have Bob the clown in town so not to sure the circus has left town!!

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 23, 2015 at 3:49 AM

          I can tell you think you’re hilarious with you Bob comments. But I think you’re the only one. It’s not even original man. Is it really that hard to have a discussion and not just be completely disrespectful of a guy, even if you don’t care for him as a QB? i.e., being mature?

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 23, 2015 at 11:34 AM

          Trey, gasngo is a troll that has been banned numerous times from other Redskins discussion forums. He has celebrated RG3 injuries and actually shows up most when the team is down. He’ll play nice for a bit luring others into discussion only to antagonize responders with his ignorance. I’m almost sure he is a Cowboy fan disguised as a Redskin Fan.
          He’s a complete child and a waste of your time in providing knowledgeable responses.

          I also think he has a crush on me which is extra creepy.

          I’m not attacking him but being honest about his reputation

        • Trey Gregory - Aug 23, 2015 at 10:49 PM

          Yeah, I shouldn’t have even validated him comments with a response. But his jokes were so bad that He suckered me in. He just seemed even more lame than your average stupid person.

  15. bangkokben - Aug 22, 2015 at 10:39 PM

    Man, the Ravens looked terrible except their 3rd stringer. No sense getting all Colt Brennen or Babe Laufenberg up in purple land, though. Let’s keep that talk, here.

  16. goback2rfk - Aug 22, 2015 at 11:30 PM

    RG3 is not going anywhere. He is going to be the Redskins QB at least through this decade, maybe longer.
    Hell he is signed on for what 15 million next year. He should be signing a 4 year extension worth around 60 million next year that will have him here through the year 2020.

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Aug 23, 2015 at 11:42 AM

      Love your optimism and hope you’re not joking. Joking aside, I hope you’re right but we’ll see how the season plays out which I think is a defining year for both RG3 and Gruden

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