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Need to Know: Is Redskins quarterback RG3 really “done”?

Jul 24, 2015, 5:12 AM EDT

RG3 sacked by Fletcher Cox

Here is what you need to know on this Friday, July 24, 6 days before the Washington Redskins start training camp.

Question of the day

A few days a week I’ll give an in-depth answer to a question submitted by a fan on my Twitter feed, via the Real Redskins Facebook page, or in the comments section here. On Twitter address the questions to me at @Rich_TandlerCSN with the #NTK hashtag. There will be a comment thread set up on the Facebook page and if you’re asking your question here, put “for NTK” at the start of the comment.

I’ll also take your Need to Know questions via email. Hit me up with “NTK” in the subject line. Just keep them relatively brief, please. 

Today’s question comes from Twitter:

Those are really two different concepts there so I’ll address them separately.

Has he hit rock bottom? If last November wasn’t rock bottom, I don’t know what is.

—In a game against the Bucs he was awful, throwing two interceptions, taking six sacks, and either not seeing or missing open receives. After the game a firestorm was created when he said, “It doesn’t just take one guy and that is proven. If you want to look at the good teams in this league and the great quarterbacks, the Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Mannings, those guys don’t play well if their guys don’t play well.” Although those were taken out of context from a postgame talk that had plenty of instances if Griffin taking responsibility, that was widely interpreted as him throwing his teammates under the bus. Speaking to the media the next day, Jay Gruden said, “From his basic performance, just critiquing Robert, it was not even close to being good enough to what we expect from that quarterback position.”

—After another shaky performance, this one against the 49ers, Griffin was benched in favor of journeyman Colt McCoy.

A quarterback who was the rookie of the year just two seasons earlier can’t get much lower than being ripped by the national media, perhaps unfairly, getting harshly critiqued by his coach during a press conference, and getting benched in favor of McCoy. So answers the second part of the question.

Is Griffin done? I think it is foolish to say that a 25-year-old quarterback who has had the success that Griffin has had is “done”. There simply is too much physical ability there to think that it is impossible for him to put it together.

The anonymous poll respondent to the ESPN survey said that Griffin is done in part because his legs are shot. I just don’t believe that. As evidence, I present Griffin’s 2013 season. To be sure, that year was a major letdown and he clearly was hampered by the lingering effects of the major knee injury he suffered during a playoff game in January of that year. But if you look at his numbers, most of the major stats were right around the NFL average or better in some cases. Griffin completed 60.1 percent of his passes (league averaged in 2013 was 61.2%), had 2.6 percent of his passes intercepted (avg. 2.8%), averaged 7.0 yards per attempt (avg. 7.1) and had a passer rating of 82.2 (avg. 84.1).

In short, starting the season nine months after reconstructive knee surgery and playing with a bulky brace, Griffin was about an average NFL quarterback. That’s not what the Redskins want him to be in the long term but the point is that he can be productive even playing essentially on one leg.

That same respondent said that Griffin’s “ego” would not allow him to do what it takes to get better. We don’t know who this person was so we have no way of knowing if he is in a position to gauge Griffin’s ego and the affect it has on what he is willing to do.

But will he grind his way back? Or does believe that a tweak here or there will fix things? He can be fine physically but if he is not mentally prepared to do what it takes to improve, whether it’s his “ego” or whatever else that’s in the way, he will be spinning his wheels—and the franchise along with him.


—It’s been 208 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be 51 days until they play the Dolphins at FedEx Field.

Days until: Redskins training camp starts 6; Preseason opener @ Browns 20; final cuts 43

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In case you missed it

  1. troylok - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:37 AM

    It seems funny that people would be attacking him after just having some mini-camps where the coach said he was happy with RG3’s progress. I have no idea if RG3 can be successful this year, but what I hope is he is making a “wall of motivation” with all of these negative articles.

    • Skulb - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:51 AM

      Sure but Gruden said the same thing last summer. You can`t trust what athletes and coaches say in the off season. it`s their job to be mindlessly optimistic in the media this time of year. Of course Griffin can play well though. He proved that in 2012, whether it was a fluke because of the system or what or because he was faster on the cut. But if he can just get back to average/2013 territory a lot of the criticism will die down and that will maybe give him some peace of mind.
      Personally I think he just needs to stay healthy for a full season to get some continuity and improvements should follow. It remains to be seen whether that will be possible though. Injuries are what`s really threatening his career right now. Not because they should be used as an excuse, like some people here seem to prefer, but because they break up his rhythm as a QB.
      I mean he did actually look somewhat promising before his ankle fell off last year and did manage to finish out in a not completely terrible manner. It seem that every time he looks as if he might be getting on a roll he gets injured or the season ends. let`s hope he can change that in 2015. It might be his last chance.

      • troylok - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:48 AM

        Skulb, you are right, of course. There is no way we can trust what is being said by Gruden alone, but we’ve heard from a few other sources that his game looks improved. I also agree that RG3’s development has been hampered by injuries. Just as much as the injuries, though, is his ego that is getting in his way of being successful. I think Snyder has stepped away from RG3 where with Shanahan, I believe he protected RG3. RG3 acted a little miffed last year that the coach could critique his game. He gets in front of the cameras and when things go right, he uses “I” a lot but when things go wrong, he uses “we” a lot. That stuff has to stop.

        • Skulb - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:24 PM

          I must admit I had to stop watching press conferences and interviews with him last year. Maybe I`m being unfair to him, but he just gives off that Special Snowflake vibe and I`m having some issues adjusting to it. Sure, it`s the “I” when it`s going great and the “we” when it`s not. But it`s more than that. It`s the catchphrases, the shoe commercials and the giggling. Oh God the giggling. He`s like a 13 year old girl sometimes.
          In fact he acts like something I expect to find at the bottom of corn flakes boxes when you`re done with them. All he needs now is a cape and a theme song and he`s ready for Cartoon Network.
          And all that would even be fine by me if it wasn`t for the 3-13 and 4-12 records over the last two seasons.

      • Rich Tandler - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:38 AM

        I’m not going on what Gruden says, I’m going with my own two eyes. He was better this year, more confident, less hesitant, compared to the same time last year. Considerably better. I’m also saying that there is not guarantee that the improvement carries over into training camp and into the preseason and, ultimately, regular season. Again, my own two eyes will be the judge.

        • Skulb - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:43 AM

          Well that`s good enough for me. Like you say though, it`s tricky to assess before the pads come on at least. He looked a bit scared under pressure at times last year. Not that I necessarily blame him. I might be scared with NFL running backs coming after me too. But it doesn`t do his game much good if it is the case. TC should give some more answers I guess.

        • troylok - Jul 24, 2015 at 9:42 AM

          Rich, that’s great to hear. I don’t think any of us will know for sure until we see him in a game situation, but it’s encouraging to hear he is looking good in practice. Any insight on what kind of drills the new QB coach is having him work on? I believe you had mentioned in an earlier article that none of the QB’s could throw a fade route, so I wondered if they dragged out the trashcan drill.

        • kenlinkins - Jul 24, 2015 at 11:10 AM

          Rich: interesting comment, “Considerably better” this year in OTA / Mini Camp (PS I like the hedge of no guarantee, I bet you are a good investor). My problem with anyone who claims that they can project RG3’s 2015 season is that there are way too many moving parts and changes to buy into a claim of knowing for 100% sure. IMO the odds are about 60 – 40 against him, but that is very close to a coin flip. For every claim of up coming poor performance most fans can counter with a reason for better performance. The fact of the matter is that with a new GM the Redskins only move is to play him in 2015 and see where the new GM places his value at years end. Everything else is just noise from people who like him or hate him, which is OK it makes for fun reading, but they should not call it fact or say they are 100% sure. Nothing in the NFL is 100% sure. The only thing I know is that RG3 is a Lightening Rod right now with “unknown” people takings shots at him and a disappointed fan base waiting they see if they were right or wrong about him. My question is why is he such a target for so many? He is not the first high cost QB to go bust (if that happens), who is at fault for all the shots (some cheap, some not) taken by so many? (or is it so many, could it be a small group of people with an ax to grind?) I just do not understand the amount of shots heading his way? Any ideas?

        • berniebernard666 - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:49 PM

          “He was better this year, more confident, less hesitant….”

          HUH? Did the season start and I didn’t know it. Which game were you referring to this season?

        • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:45 PM

          He’s referring to practice. Chris Cooley said you can tell a lot out about practices. Practices help with the chemistry between the OL, QBs, WRs & TEs in the passing game. They are very important and it is important that Griffin is looking a lot better this offseason then he looked last offseason.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 25, 2015 at 9:31 AM

          “…Considerably better. I’m also saying that there is not guarantee that the improvement carries over into training camp and into the preseason and, ultimately, regular season.”


          Do you stop reading after the third sentence of the statement? It was clear Rich was referring to OTAs and mini camp. Was it just that you didn’t like what you were reading and chose not to go any further. I guess it didn’t meet that exaggerated narrative you have been trying to push here on with comments about RG3.

      • voice4thefans - Jul 24, 2015 at 12:48 PM

        Sure but Gruden said the same thing last summer.@Skulb can you please show me where Gruden said that last year , your comment is about dumb as they come

        • Skulb - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:38 PM

          How about when he said this about Griffin during last year`s TC: “he has a great understanding, a great feel”. Any time he was asked there was nothing but praise along with the customary “he`s got a long way to go”.

          Btw don`t you have a search line on your internet browser so you can look up these obvious things for yourself? Or do you just enjoy insulting people randomly when they are right and you are wrong? I`d recommend typing in the following: “Jay Gruden”, “2014”, “training camp”, “RGIII”. That should get you all the pressers from last year so you can confirm for yourself that I`m right. Your comment is about as dumb as they come.

          PS: The first word in a sentence should be capitalized. Might wanna get some of the basics sorted if you`re gonna come out swinging like this.

        • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM

          Since we’re criticizing grammar. I’d like to point out Skulb that you are using the wrong ‘ apostrophe when you are writing your words. I’m not sure what’s going on there but it’s weird man.

        • Skulb - Jul 25, 2015 at 8:18 AM

          I`t because I`m using a European keyboard.

        • abanig - Jul 25, 2015 at 9:50 AM

          Ohhhh…. My bad bro. I thought it may have been something like that because it was so odd.

        • Trey Gregory - Jul 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM

          You also need to put a question mark at the end of a sentence that is a question. You’re also not supposed to put a space before a comma, only after.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:51 PM

          How about making it a rule where any comment attempting to attack grammar be removed? This is a discussion forum on a matter of a football team. I know I make grammar errors on my comment all the time. However, I don’t seek the time to edit every comment. As long as the statement makes it’s point, proper grammar is pointless. Stick to the topic at hand instead! Oh I’m sorry now should I have stated. Instead, stick to the topic at hand? It doesn’t make a freaking difference regarding why we post comments here.

      • Trey Gregory - Jul 24, 2015 at 3:15 PM

        Skulb, once again I agree with most of what you said. One big difference though, I don’t remember hearing a lot of positive remarks about RG3 during 2014s pre season at all. Everything I heard was negative, and those pre season games, oh my god he was bad. But I kept trying to tell myself he would pull it together. Now, I’m hearing a lot more positive things from people who are actually there (not just guys ripping on him from across the country without seeing him practice.) So it feels different this year. Last year I was expecting to see RG3 bounce back and I was trying to ignore the negative press. This year, I’m being very cautiously optimistic while always reminding myself just how far he has to go to even be average and I’m trying to not read too much into the positive comments about him. It all just feels different this year. Maybe it’s him having a QB coach, maybe Gruden learned he has to tailor his offense to RG3 a bit, maybe it’s something else. I just don’t remember anyone saying anything good about RG3 last year like they are this year.

        Also, I get what you guys are saying about the press confrences, but give the guy a break. When the media is asking you questions, you’re going to say “I” a lot. I’m always careful to pay attention to what he says because of all the comments like you guys just made, and he truly isn’t that bad. He says “I” and “we” no matter if he won or lost. He is always careful to credit his offensive counterparts and takes plenty of blame when they lose. Even in the press conference that everyone rips him for, he said stuff like “I have to do better.” A lot more than the one or two lines he said about the team needing to play better. Oh, and the team DID need to play better. That loss to Tampa was a team loss, it was awful all around. So I’m not going to bash the guy for saying he played bad but then being correct when he said the rest of the team needed to play better. I get that perception is reality, and nobody wants to hear him say anything until he starts to win. But if you put all that aside and look at what he actually said, none of it was all that bad.

        • Skulb - Jul 25, 2015 at 8:15 AM

          Preseason games yes. And yes other people were talking badly about Griffin last year, as they are now. What I was replying to was that Gruden was positive about him, and indeed he was last year at this time as well. He spent last year talking about RGIII being talented and all the good things about him and these pressers are still uploaded to the web if you want to confirm it. That`s all I was commenting on: Gruden`s statements.
          The negatives didn`t start coming until the PS games. And we`re not there yet in 2015.

    • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 8:07 PM

      100% agree and negative fans! Griffin needs to just focus on football and continue to do what he’s been doing this offseason which is grinding and trying to become a better pocket passing QB and trying to improve his pocket presence.

  2. colorofmyskinz - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:29 AM

    Can RGIII survive in the NFL as a pocket passer only is the question? And the answer is unequivocally and emphatically NO!

    He has to bring an element of what we saw in 2012 to make up for his lack of development in high school and college as that type of QB. He has to keep the defense off kilter by the threat of a potential run by him, or he will never be able to make up for the under developed skills that most passers have.

    Can he develop those skills. YES. But that will take years and he does not have years to buy himself belief by the NFL. He has to bring some run, read option, spead, and scramble to open up opportunities to make up for his diwn sides.

    So it comes down to one thing. Are RGIII and RGII (his dad), willing to bring back that confidence to sprinkle in electric runs to open up opportunities for him or not? He does not have to do as much as 2012. But, If RGIII does not want to run, I think he is done.

    Pretty simple. It is up to him and his dad RUN or DONE!

    • troylok - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:51 AM

      Color, I agree that Gruden could help RG3 with the game plan more than he has. Part of me believes Gruden is doing this on purpose to force RG3 to learn how to throw from the pocket, but another part of me believes Gruden just refuses to adjust his game plan. Based on how stubborn Gruden has been with running the football, I am beginning to think it is more the latter.

      • voice4thefans - Jul 24, 2015 at 12:56 PM

        Really I can not believe you are saying that , it up to the QB to make the adjustments not the Coach, if he can not play from the Pocket than he need to get out of the league ,One more point, he was a very good pocket QB in high School ( its on YouTube ) HE Just need to get off of Social media and shut the F—– up and worry more about his game

        • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:06 PM

          That’s BS man. The coach calls the plays. If the coach wants Griffin to run a bootleg or move the pocket, he’ll call that play. Griffin is running the plays that the coaches call. The coaches need to tailor the game plan to fit their qbs strengths if they want to win games. Like Kyle Shanahan did in 2012 and work on the things the QB isn’t good at in practice and in the offseason. We should see improvement every year if that happens and if the player stays healthy and can practice on what he needs to practice on.

          He hasn’t even been on social media much in the last year. And I’ll add that social media has no affect on anyone’s job performance for the malt part. When Robert has to work, he works.

          He’s not a lazy man.

    • mr.moneylover - Jul 24, 2015 at 9:07 AM

      Tarik believes rg3 will run this year and run alot too…last year rg3 was injured so you really cant really evaluate him and getting injured really set rg3 back and when he did come back against the Vikings he wasnt fully healthy but put up 26 points but our horrible defense and jim hasslet couldn’t stop couldnt stop a rookie

    • kenlinkins - Jul 24, 2015 at 12:39 PM

      I agree that RG3’s lack of playing in a pro style QB system in High School, College and first year in the NFL really hurt him as each level offers development chances that once missed make it much harder at the next level. This is a great point and one many people just do not understand. Development of a pro style QB is the hardest thing to do in college football and any missed development time really shows up in the NFL.

      • voice4thefans - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:00 PM do not comment unless you R sure of what you are saying

        • kenlinkins - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:29 PM

          Maybe you should take your own advise, What I saw was 3 or 4 play from the shot – gun where he stayed in the pocket but I NEVER saw a 5 or 7 step drop from under center. I saw a ton of play action design to make LB’s think the play was a QB option run and then RG3 turns back inside or drops back watching only one side. That is not a Pro Style offense, but thanks for proving my point!

        • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 4:56 PM

          Since when is play action not a “pro style offense?”

          It’s a staple of any pro style offense. Griffin is great dropping back and using play action or using play action out of the pistol or doing play action from the shot gun. In 2012 Griffin was one of the best qbs in the NFL out of play action because his play action fakes were so great and he was always a threat to run off of his play action.

          Griffin has to get better in his straight drop back game where there is NO play action. This is what he Cavanaugh and Ragone are focusing on the most this offseason. If Griffin can improve his footwork and his timing with the Wrs in the straight drop back passing game he’s going to be a better than average QB in the league again and trending upwards toward a top 10 QB in the NFL with a few more years of development.

        • kenlinkins - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:36 PM

          If you do not want to take my word for it, try, In 2008 RG3 was listed as a 4 star Dual Threat QB not a “Pro Style” QB.

      • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 8:14 PM

        “Dual threat QB” doesn’t mean a QB can’t be a “pro style” QB.

        All it is is a label. It means nothing.

        And Griffin will always be a dual threat QB. I always compare him to Cunningham. Randall Cunningham started to develop into a better pocket passer in his late 20s after 4/5 years of development in NFL “pro style” offenses.

        Even when Cunningham was in his mid 30s and almost took the Vikings to the Super bowl – and would have if Gary Anderson didn’t miss his fg – Cunningham was still a dual threat QB that could move in and out of the pocket, throw on the run and get out of the pocket and run for 10-20 yards on almost every play.

        Griffin will be doing the same thing when he’s in his 30s. I hope it’s for the Redskins and not somewhere else.

        • kenlinkins - Jul 26, 2015 at 5:58 AM

          100% correct , in fact most QB’s coming out of College today are Dual Threat QB’s because it is easier to win in College football today with a Dual Threat QB and those college head coach’s do not want to give up millions of dollars just to teach some kid how to be a Pro Style QB.

  3. colorofmyskinz - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:40 AM

    Last thought. Steve Young had the same issue, needing to transition from run option to pocket passer. The difference is he recognized that in college. And it took him years of college and 3+ years in the NFL to make the transition. It was not like Strve Young came to the NFL as a read option only QB, had 2 major injuries, and decided to make the transition in 1.5 years. RGIII has to keep running to keep results high because he does not have 3 years to sit in the pocket to figure it out. In 2015 he has to RUN or he is DONE.

  4. sidepull - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:54 AM

    Of course he is not done. It is conceivable he is done here I guess if things go south for him this season but he is far from done. If he leaves the Redskins eventually, he would no doubt, get a shot with another club. There are too many reclamation stories, change of scenery stories that dismiss the idea that he cannot do better if he were to leave the Redskins. I think it is fashionable to pile on. He is not as bad as his detractors would have us believe. As soon as he gets some wins together all this starts to change. Until then they will continue to pile on.

    • colorofmyskinz - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:07 AM

      Does Russell Wilson try to sit in the pocket the entire game like Brady? NO. Is Russell Wilson better in the pocket than RGIII? YES. And it still requires runs on Russell’s part to even have the pocket opportunities he has.

      He has to WANT to RUN, or he is DONE. Other teams will NOT pick him up if he wants to JUST sit in the pocket like Brady. If he WANTS to RUN, then other teams will be interested. He has to show that in 2015, or he is DONE.

      • babyteal1 - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:33 AM

        You sound like a broken record.

      • sidepull - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:36 AM

        So Rg3 gets cut today and nobody picks him up? Right. All it takes is one coach. Rg3 is young. I don’t know where you heard he does not want to run. Maybe you just infer that. The media certainly comes up with anything and everything when they see him down and to tell you the truth somewhere in between is probably the truth. I have seen nowhere that it is a fact that he said does not want to run. Anyhow,you are entitled to your opinion. That is all it is. Sounds like a real nifty mantra you have going there, run or done, catchy.

        • colorofmyskinz - Jul 24, 2015 at 7:58 AM

          RGII walking into the lockeroom and demanding that of Shanny is well documented. RGIII making statements about what he wants is well documented. RGIII shutting down specific read option plays and pulling them from the playbook is well documented.

          RGII’s statements well documented.

          He has to want to run to run effectively. Last 2 years that desire was not there and injuries impacted that desire.

          The question is does he want to run in 2015. He needs to put 400 plus on the ground in 2015. RUN or DONE.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 24, 2015 at 9:16 AM

          Run or Done??? Color, I think you are taking Shanahan’s comments way out of context. Shanahan stated he wanted to be used like Aaron Rogers not Tom Brady. It’s not running that gave him the success at Baylor as much as it was the spread offense. The only thing to accurately infer from Shanahan’s comments is that RG3 wanted to be throwing in the pocket more often. Shanahan simply didn’t think he was ready to for an offense that is primarily played out of the pocket. It looks like he was right! Finally, Shanahan never stated he was asked to eliminate all run options.

  5. sidepull - Jul 24, 2015 at 8:10 AM

    Color, well documented by who? It sounds like you were n the locker room and heard this first hand? I never heard any audio, saw a video. Sure I read that stuff but I don’t buy it all. Its documented by media types with sources. How do I know something wasn’t leaked out of Redskin Park? Maybe you know of leaks? I mean Shanahan said on TV for all to hear that Shanahan does not tell the truth. And that is something everybody saw and heard. I take it all with a grain of salt. I agree he needs to keep the D honest with his legs but is he done if he doesn’t? I just don’t think that is correct. Nuff said.

  6. wannabeahog - Jul 24, 2015 at 8:52 AM

    Rich…NTK…All the talk about how the new QB coach is really going to help RGlll. How about Cousins? Can’t the same coach help him with his confindence after making a mistake?

  7. mr.moneylover - Jul 24, 2015 at 8:54 AM

    I wouldnt be surprise if it was kyle shanahan as the anonymous offensive coordinator or somebody that was cool with mike shanahan like rams head coach jeff fisher…ppl that watch rg3 every game he played knows he not done…last year he didnt trust his O-line and on top of that he had a head coach who bash him publicly every week witch wont help a QB confident at all…plus last year was his first year running a new west coast offense…this off-season I hear hes looking better then last off-season….if he keeps making progress he gonna shut up the media…I hate ppl who dont attach they name to something

  8. redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 24, 2015 at 9:01 AM

    Okay, let’s take this foolish concept of assuming RG3 is done. Simply get rid of RG3 by trading him to where there is a proven successful spread offense like New England. Let’s ask for a 3rd round pick for him. I’m sure RG3 would be relieved to be working under excellent coaching and organization that knows how to get the best out of players. You then could have Tom Brady’s replacement. Look if this organization squanders the opportunity to groom RG3 then he could end up in such a place like New England and I think it will be this organization that ends up the loser and not RG3.

  9. xskulldog - Jul 24, 2015 at 10:02 AM

    With a QB coach, a new offensive line coach/improved offensive line personnel/play, and better play calling, the offense should turn itself around. Gruden made a big mistake by telling everyone, including defensive coordinators, that he wanted RGIII to be a better pocket passer. He then puts a questionable offensive line infront of him.

    Defensive coordinators knew to go after him in the pocket and based upon the results, they were very successful. Defensive linemen came after him and the play calling did not keep them off balance enough. Consequently, our QB’s were feasted upon by opposing linemen.

    If Gruden puts a little more imagination into the play calling, we should be okay. Callahan’s input should help.

  10. goback2rfk - Jul 24, 2015 at 10:23 AM

    He is done. I feel bad for him but he just was never the same after that blown out ACL against Seattle.
    5 -11 would be good for this year and maybe 7 – 9 or 8 – 8 in 2016.

  11. berniebernard666 - Jul 24, 2015 at 11:28 AM

    So…”if last November wasnt rock bottom I don’t know what is”. Rich…Let me answer that one for you.

    Next year could be Rock Bottom. If Griffin plays poorly, he will be CUT from his first NFL team. Then get picked up by another bottom feeder franchise, and be forced to compete for a backup QB spot behind people like Josh McCown or Mark Sanchez. How humiliating it would be to not be the darling franchise QB anymore but be labeled as JASON CAMPBELL…a perpetual backup journeyman quarterback….a drifter…..who just couldn’t succeed at a higher level. THAT is rock bottom for somebody who already has a statue.

    • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 12:22 PM

      Won’t be that bad if it went like JC. JC went to Oakland and was playing quite well – having one of his better seasons and the team was around .500 but he hurt his collarbone.

      Then, yes JC became like Colt McCoy and was seen as back up material but let’s face it, a back up QB job is the best job on the entire planet. Last year JC made a cool $1.5 million dollars

      • berniebernard666 - Jul 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM

        abanig….you obviously don’t get it. Rock Bottom? It has a different meaning for different people. Did Jason Campbell get drafted as the franchise QB? No. Was he the number 2 pick in the draft? NO. Was everybody surprised that Campbell went in the 1st round? Yes. Did Jason Campbell ever have a statue built? No. Did Jason Campbell ever have a Addidas Shoe contract, Subway Contract, Multi Media Marketing contracts and get National Attention in his rookie year? NO.

        If you can’t tell the difference between Jason Campbells expectations and Griffins, then you probably need to study and pay attention a bit more.

        • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 6:35 PM

          Jason Campbell was a first round pick in the 2005 NFL draft. Not everyone was surprised Campbell went round 1. Campbell was projected as a late first or early second round pick and that’s where he went.

          It was expected that Campbell would develop into our starting QB and he had the tools to be a Doug Williams type QB.

          That’s why Gibbs drafted him in round 1. Gibbs’ plan was to continuously build our OL up, use the strong running game and to use Campbell as mostly a deep ball passer.

          Then, Gibbs hired Al Saunders and the offense went from a Gibbs type offense to a short passing west coast offense.

          Every QB that needs to learn a west coast offense, it takes a few years for them to develop into it because it’s different.

          All the stuff you wrote about how Griffin did this and that in the past, where he was drafted and had a statue built for him is irrelevant now that he’s in the NFL. What matters is that Griffin develops, his past only matters to fans. The present and future development are more important to Griffin than anything that’s happened in his past.

          All that matters for Griffin is his current and future development into more of an NFL drop back passing QB who can be more efficient out of the pocket without using play action.

  12. Jim Dunn - Jul 24, 2015 at 11:56 AM

    L O S E R

  13. abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 12:18 PM

    My god! I know you try rich but seriously RG3 is talked about way to much with the DC media it drives fans who care about the entire team insanely! Lol

    • Rich Tandler - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:48 PM

      I’ll put my ratio of RG3 to non-RG3 posts up against anybody’s. And despite what you say, traffic numbers say that people are interested in Griffin.

      • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:54 PM

        You’re right, I was just being a little facetious

  14. voice4thefans - Jul 24, 2015 at 1:00 PM

    • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 3:02 PM

      I have a few comments on this video:

      1. This is high school

      2. This is off of play action. Griffin is great off of play action with his footwork and hitting his drops and letting the ball rip.

      On the flip side Griffin was atrocious in 2013 & 14 when he was a straight drop back passer and there was NO play action or when he wasn’t in the shot gun.

      Griffin has to get better as a straight drop back passer when there is no play action taking place in the backfield or when he’s not in the shot gun.

      We all should know this, Griffin knows it as well and I think everyone knows he’s working diligently at his straight drop back all offseason.

  15. renhoekk2 - Jul 24, 2015 at 2:22 PM

    In case no one is noticing, we already had 2013 Griffin. His name is Jason Campbell. The 2013 season that Rich is touting as productive, and the one that everyone hopes Griffin can get back to is pretty much what Jason Campbell gives you. Check the stats. So at this point in the Griffin development project, we’re HOPING he can become Jason Campbell. And I don’t even know what else to say……..

    If we’re hoping for Soup type production I think he’s UFA right now. And he won’t cost $6.7M this year and another $16M next year.

    • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM

      Jason Campbell’s completion percentage increased every year even though the Offense changed every year and he only had Moss to throw to.

    • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 3:16 PM

      I think you need to re-read what Ric wrote. Rich said that Griffin’s 2013 season was average. He didn’t say it was good.

      Rich also pointed out – and rightfully so – that Griffin’s 2013 season was average after he had messed up two ligaments in his knee 9 months before the season started.

      Now, you can call that an excuse of you want but facts are facts here. In 2013 Griffin had NO offseason, he was rehabbing and not practicing. In 2013 Griffin played the entire season on a heavy brace and was still overall an average NFL QB and he also ran for 489 yards in 13 games and had a 5.7 avg per carry.

      I think the skins would have won more games had the play calling been better in he redzone. Kyle should have gotten Griffin throwing on he move more in 2013 with only 1/2 of the field to read, Kyle should have called more bootlegs, Kyle should have called more keepers for Griffin like Kyle did in 2012 when Griffin had 7 rushing TDs. In 2013 Griffin had 0 rushing TDs. If you take 49 points out of your redzone scoring then you’ll libel not to win as many games in that next season….. :-/

  16. jbren53 - Jul 24, 2015 at 10:16 PM

    @Rich isn’t the real reason RG3 is considered “done” primarily because of the other NFL teams ability to adapt and expose the read option gimmick for being just that, a gimmick?

    • abanig - Jul 24, 2015 at 10:29 PM

      Read option still works, teams with mobile qbs still use it but you can’t use it all game and be successful.

      The only reason Griffin would ever be considered “done” would be because either he’s injured or he’s in his mid thirties and teams don’t even think he can be a viable back up anymore and that’s a decade away.

      • jbren53 - Jul 24, 2015 at 11:33 PM

        @Rich Not saying read option DOESNT work, but it seemed to be that the majority of the Redskins offense stemmed from the read option and by taking it away (mostly) others teams seemed to have crippled the Redskins offensive production. To be honest, you know and I know that’s the ONLY reason he had the type of season that he did in 2012 and why he hasn’t had a good season since. You want to blame it on injuries? Go ahead, but your lying to yourself. Read option gimmick was just that and the NFL teams exposed him when they took it away. Now you have a QB that actually has to rely on real QB skills and he’s not up to par, that’s why he got benched last season and that’s why he’ll get benched THIS season. MARK MY WORDS

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 25, 2015 at 1:12 AM

          We stopped running it nobody took it away.

          Exactly what Games was it Shut down? Because the last I remember we were up 14 to 0 against the Seahawks using it before RG3 got hurt

        • jbren53 - Jul 25, 2015 at 1:31 AM

          @Rich I beg to differ, we stopped running it because NFL defenses started shutting us down. 14-0 up on the Seabirds isn’t saying anything other than the gimmick worked when defenses didn’t know how to nulify the read op. Once the teams in the NFL caught on it was as if the 2012 RG3 never existed. Did RG3 do anything in 2013? Nope, but I’ll give you the injury excuse. 2014? Nope, and 2015 remains to be seen. The lifespan of a gimmick is short. The lifespan of a QB who relies on a gimmick is even shorter. RG3 will be riding the pine before the end of the season and I hope he makes me eat my words, but I doubt it

        • abanig - Jul 25, 2015 at 10:21 AM

          Except that Griffin didn’t score on the read option against the Seahawks. He threw two touchdown passes.

          Also, he dislocated his ankle in 2014 and he missed two months. He was not 100% the last month and a half he played yet, he beat the Eagles and that’s more than you can say for Cousins.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 25, 2015 at 1:16 AM

          Except that the read-option is not a gimmick. Its use has actually increased since 2012, while also providing more rushing yards per attempt than other formations.

        • jbren53 - Jul 25, 2015 at 4:28 AM

          Well, DUH, of course the use of it has increased since 2012, it’s a monkey see monkey do league! Stats can be misleading and as far as HIS stats go, please, you better go somewhere with that nonsense because your not convincing anybody who’s a Redskins fan that those stats actually hold water. Him being a starting NFL QB is simply by default, not because he EARNED it or because the organization feels like they owe it to him, but because they know they owe it to themselves for potentially (most likely) flushing four draft picks down the proverbial toilet for this guy.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 25, 2015 at 12:29 PM

          We Quit running the Read Option. We didn’t run it in 2013 & 2014. Do you even know the difference?

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 25, 2015 at 4:15 PM

          “Well, DUH, of course the use of it has increased since 2012, it’s a monkey see monkey do league! ”

          So, you’re admitting that you were wrong about the read-option being a gimmick? A gimmick is a novel idea or scheme that is often associated with a short-lived fad. How is it a short-lived fad, then, when its use has increased three seasons after NFL teams starting using it to a significant degree?

          Also, I never said anything about Griffin in my post about the read-option, but this line is interesting:

          “Him being a starting NFL QB is simply by default, not because he EARNED it or because the organization feels like they owe it to him…”

          Prior to Griffin’s leading the team in 2012, the Redskins had not made the playoffs in five seasons. They did not have a winning record in five seasons. They did not finish higher than last in their division in five seasons. They had not won the division in 13 seasons. Since the coach who provided success left the team after the 2007 season (Gibbs), the Redskins hired and fired one head coach (Zorn), and hired another coach who won less games than that fired coach in the same number of seasons (Shanahan). Oh, and Griffin joined a team that made the playoffs an amazing total of five times in 20 seasons since their last Super Bowl win in 1991.

          But yeah, Griffin didn’t earn anything. And the organization doesn’t feel like they owe it to him, not with the Patriots-like success they’ve had with other QBs under center.

  17. RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 25, 2015 at 12:58 AM

    “Has he hit rock bottom? If last November wasn’t rock bottom, I don’t know what is.”

    Saying that he has hit “rock bottom” as an NFL QB implies more recent events, and he’s currently the first-string QB of an NFL team. You tell me if that’s “rock bottom”.

    At least it would be more accurate to say that he DID hit “rock bottom”, and has climbed back from it ever since. In three games after being benched, Griffin posted 5.9 adjusted net yards per pass attempt (2014 NFL average ANY/A was 6.1.). Just for perspective, Ryan Tannehill signed a ridiculous QB contract in the offseason, and his 2014 ANY/A was 5.8. I know, the notion that QB stat performance in general tends to be unreliable is absurd; especially when you use a two-game, in-season sample size (Bucs and 49ers). Some people forget that when they assess a quarterback.

    • Rich Tandler - Jul 25, 2015 at 3:57 AM

      So, I’m using a two-game rock bottom sample size and you’re using a three-game “recovery” sample size but mine is not big enough but yours is worth drawing a conclusion from?


      • jbren53 - Jul 25, 2015 at 5:05 AM

        @Rich Look, all I’m saying is it just SEEMS like too big of a coincidence to overlook. Redskins introduce the shoving read option down your throat play, Redskins are successful. NFL learns how to shutdown read option play next year, Redskins are unsuccessful. The year after that, unsuccessful. People are overlooking the possibility that maybe RG3 isn’t as efficient at the QB position because he has no gimmick/gadget(whatever you want to call it) to hide behind. You guys are putting so much emphasis on his leg injury that it’s become the go to excuse for everything he does wrong! If RG3 forgot to put peanut butter in his jelly sandwich someone would probably say it’s because of his leg injury. I’m not minimizing the seriousness of his injuries, but c’mon, your telling me that his leg injury is what’s keeping him from surveying the field? From not being able to get past his first read? From missing wide open receivers? I can’t buy that.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 25, 2015 at 12:33 PM

          They didn’t run the read option in 2013 or 2014. Do you even know what you are watching?

      • abanig - Jul 25, 2015 at 9:42 AM

        I think it’s more that most fans and some in the media point to the Tampa and SF games to point out that Griffin can’t play the NFL game.

        What those people don’t talk about is a few things:

        1. Trent Williams was either badly injured and hobbled through the game, ala Tampa, or in SF Trent didnt play.

        You may say that doesn’t matter, but I say, why wouldn’t it?

        You have a QB coming off an ankle dislocation, who’s not 100%, hasn’t played much in two months and doesn’t have the mobility he does when he’s 100%. On top of that, he doesn’t have his best OL protecting his blindside, instead he has an extremely raw rookie names Morgan Moses who – if you ask Virginia football fans – think he shouldn’t have been drafted as high as we drafted him.

        2. After those two games it was characterized that Griffin would never get it. Yet, he comes back and improves. I think when some people say you can’t do something and then you come back and prove them wrong, that means a lot. It shows Griffin’s perserverence.

        In the last two years a lot of people have characterized Griffin as not a hard worker, injury prone, too selfish, and that he’ll never become an in the pocket NFL QB. They’re basing this off of basically just one season of football when you combine the games he played in 2013 and 14 when he was coming off surgery to two knee ligaments and had a dislocated ankle and missed two months.

        That my friend does not seem like a good sample size to judge Griffin. I believe Griffin should be judged when he’s healthy like he will be at the beginning of this season. If Griffin can never stay healthy for as long he’s a Redskin, well that’s a different story but we need to give him time to prove it all.

        I believe most fans are being impatient with Griffin and the media is driving a lot of that impatience, which is understandable but to me it doesn’t make much sense. If you really want to see if Griffin can be a franchise QB, you’d want to see this entire process and his entire contract pay out, and I applaud the Redskins for finally doing that with one of the three qbs they’ve drafted in the first round of the last decade.

        • brucefan1 - Jul 26, 2015 at 2:01 PM

          “I believe most fans are being impatient with Griffin and the media is driving a lot of that impatience, which is understandable but to me it doesn’t make much sense”

          I agree with that on so many levels, ab.

          Lets face it; Griffin is the EASIEST target in the NFL today, and if we know anything about sports fans and media, both groups have rarely been loath to gleefully stone a victim when he’s at his most vulnerable. What could be a safer way to score points and vent one’s spleen, right?! LOL!

          Doesn’t ANYBODY in the national media believe in just letting this stuff play out (or at least looking at it from several angles like many close observers of the Skins posting here have) before passing judgement?

          But I guess that’s not as nearly much fun as kicking a guy when he’s down.

      • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM

        “So, I’m using a two-game rock bottom sample size and you’re using a three-game “recovery” sample size but mine is not big enough but yours is worth drawing a conclusion from?”

        What I use is a season-by-season weighting method with an aging curve (and regressed to the league average QB) to predict QB performance for the upcoming season.

        But I used those three games to prove an important point: just as soon as Griffin hit “rock bottom”, he was right back to playing like a solid QB. (FWIW, Griffin’s ANY/A before the Bucs and 49ers games was 6.0.) I’ll say this again, and put it in caps for emphasis: QB PERFORMANCE TENDS TO BE VOLATILE. It’s not uncommon for QBs to drop the heck off in performance for a game or two (or even an entire season) and play better in subsequent games, and vice-versa. It’s part of the difficult sport to analyze and make predictions in called football.

  18. jscx3 - Jul 25, 2015 at 11:11 AM

    Rich I am so glad you made the comments about 2013. The team as a whole was HORRIBLE!!! Griffin still managed decent stats. They would have been better if our defense had not playing on rollerskates and the special teams not giving free passes to the endzone. Anyone that puts the Redskins woes on RG3 over the last two years has not watched one single game. Last time i checked #10 does not cover recievers or kick offs or punts. Its a TEAM, all things need to work to be great. Last year he was bad, new offense new coach and bad injury. Griffin is not free from blame he must improve and take ownership of his faults and correct them. I am not a Griffin lover, to be honest i dont care who plays qb. Just whoever is back there look like you know what you are doing. Also the head coach needs to throw his ego out and realize that if his qb fails they will both be looking for jobs next year. Taylor your offense to his skill set. It worked before.

  19. kenlinkins - Jul 25, 2015 at 5:08 PM

    This is what I mean by RG3 becoming a “Lightening Rod” and making for fun reading. So many on here have no real idea what they are talking about but do it with such passion (mostly after reading or hearing something that seems to fit their ready made up minds about RG3). Most can not even agree to disagree even thou most on here do not really under zone blocking, Read Option, what reads QB make before or after the snap, how plays are designed at the NFL level, adjustments, or film study just to name a few. Most just want to watch the NFL network and repeat what they have seen trying to prove a point! While most of us have coached or played at the Pee Wee, High school, College or semi pro levels none of us have made a living from the game. Rich has make a pretty nice living covering the Redskins and if he says that RG3 is considerably better at this point I will believe that, if IHO he feels that RG3 is not done yet, again I will go along with that. What I will not do is make stuff up or just repeat what others say on TV (that I have not mastered) to try to support something I already think. I will just say “Time will tell, wait until the preseason games, or agree to disagree”. Until then it does make for some fun reading (just not factual reading).

    • abanig - Jul 25, 2015 at 5:30 PM


  20. timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 26, 2015 at 12:10 AM

    This talk is ridicules. RG3 has ran 3 different offenses in 3 years that he has bin in the league. He has bin playing Behind one of the Worse Olines in the League that doesn’t Pass Block. They basically leave a free run at him. The Coach did Nothing to slow the Pass Rush, he just called 5 and 7 step drops over and over with barely any play action or bootlegs to slow the pass rush. All that said RG3 had 1 Great Year 1 Average Year and 1 Below Average Year. All of this while Battling injuries. He is still young and going into his 4th year with an improved Oline, wih a Better supporting cast around him, and going into his second year in the same offense. With these improvements and some better play calling this team will be better and RG3 will Play better

  21. skinsgame - Jul 26, 2015 at 10:47 PM

    Citing Griffins high completion rate is a bit deceiving. Hedumpedoff more passes than Campbell. Well, maybe not, but it was very close.campbell too always carried high completion rates.

    • abanig - Jul 27, 2015 at 1:45 AM

      Show me a QB who doesn’t have a high completion % who doesn’t throw a lot of short passes.

      I could start naming names and many are considered top 10 in the nfl.

      I’m not saying Griffin is a top 10 QB, but no QB should be penalized in anyone’s eyes because they are taking a dump down when they feel they can complete a pass 15-20 yards downfield.

      • jbren53 - Jul 27, 2015 at 2:34 AM

        Most of you bozos on here are a bunch of HOMERS and I’m not talking the long ball types either. Dudes a bust, face it, this season will be the tell all of his eventual perennial back up QB role. HES DONE. No read option to rely on = no chance. Sorry homers.

        • abanig - Jul 27, 2015 at 3:30 AM

          Yeah, and you’ll be his loudest cheerleader when he starts playing similar to how he played in 2012…

        • jermz53 - Jul 27, 2015 at 4:25 PM

          Yes we will homer

      • jermz53 - Jul 27, 2015 at 3:46 AM

        Don’t hold your breath on that one HOMER. If your dumb enough to believe that’s going to happen then I’m sure you’ll be the lone idiot sitting alone by the fireplace on Christmas Eve waiting for Santa to shoot down your chimney! Though I do believe the odds of Santa showing up to your house are better than RG3’s odds of playing well this season.

        • abanig - Jul 27, 2015 at 9:02 AM

          We’ll see hater.

        • brucefan1 - Jul 27, 2015 at 11:49 AM

          Trolls in da house!!

          (And it only took one three days to get here. Musta go lost somewhere along the line. LOL) Archives

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