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Need to Know: What is the single biggest problem the Redskins and RG3 have to fix?

Jul 14, 2015, 5:04 AM EDT

RG3 sacked by Fletcher Cox

Here is what you need to know on this Tuesday, July 14, 16 days before the Washington Redskins start training camp.

RG3’s biggest issue

Robert Griffin III is the most analyzed athlete in Washington, perhaps in the country. When training camp starts later this month every step on his dropback, the position of his feet when he makes an errant throw, his arm motion, his demeanor after a good play and after a mistake, and what he says to reporters will be under the microscope. And after the season he had last year, looking awful all too frequently, such scrutiny is to be expected.

But perhaps things are not are not as complex as they might appear to be. It seems that Griffin could improve a great deal if he just cut down on the number of sacks he takes.

For the purposes of looking at this, let’s set aside the question of who is to blame for how many of the 33 sacks he took in 247 dropbacks in 2014. Let’s just say that the number of sacks can get cut by some combination of improved pass blocking by line, backs, and tight ends, quicker decision making by the quarterback, the defense keeping the score closer so they’re not in as many obvious passing situations, and so on.

Griffin was sacked on 13.4 percent of his dropbacks last year. Before you can ask the rhetorical question, yes, that’s bad. The league sack rate was 6.3 percent. Kirk Cousins, playing behind the same line as Griffin did, had a 3.8 percent sack rate.

What if Griffin had been able to get sacked at the same rate as Cousins and do everything else the same?

Let’s use net yards/pass attempt (NY/A, the formula is sacks/(pass attempts+sacks)) as the metric here. It incorporates yards lost to sacks into the more familiar yards per attempt stat. The league average for NY/A is 6.4, Griffin’s was 5.9. The league leader was Aaron Rodgers at 7.6, followed by Tony Romo and Peyton Manning at 7.5. Griffin was 25th, in between Geno Smith and Kyle Orton.

What would Griffin’s NY/A have been if he had been sacked at the same rate as Cousins? He would have taken 10 sacks instead of 33 and his yards lost to sacks would have shrunk from 227 to 69. Griffin could have attempted 23 more passes. His completion rate on all passes last year was 68.7 percent but we’ll figure he would complete 60 percent of those additional passes since he would throw some away to avoid getting sacked. At 7.9 yards per attempt, his average on the season, that comes to an additional 110 passing yards.

Add the additional passing yards to the 158 yards that would not have been lost due to sacks and Griffin would have had 268 more net passing yards. That increases his NY/A to a stellar 8.4. Remember that Rodgers led the league at 7.6.

Is reducing Griffin’s sack percentage from 13.4 all the way to 3.8 percent too big a task? It’s hard to say but there were four quarterbacks who started 16 games who had a sack rate of 3.9 percent or better. Sure, two of them were Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. But one of them was rookie Derek Carr of the Raiders. I don’t think that aspiring to the same sack rate as Oakland’s QB, and one that Cousins achieved a year ago, is too tall an order.

Even if Griffin and company can’t get the sack rate down below four percent, improvement into neighborhood of the league average of 6.3 percent would offer a big boost to the passing game.

The sacks are not the only problem with the offense in general and with Griffin in particular. But it seems that fixing the pass protection and the issues Griffin had with holding on to the ball for too long are remedies that will bear the most fruit. This likely is priority No. 1 at Redskins Park.


—It’s been 198 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be 61 days until they play the Dolphins at FedEx Field.

Days until: Redskins training camp starts 16; Preseason opener @ Browns 30; final cuts 53

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In case you missed it

  1. bk70 - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:14 AM

    Mastering statistical data we can make anyone look good or bad. The proof is in the pudding when RG3 and team get back on the field and show us they are a competitive and improving team again. HTTR

  2. abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:47 AM

    Sacks last year were definitely Griffin’s nuggets issue. I’m going to be more specific though as to why he had such a high sack rate.

    His pocket presence last year was worse than Patrick Ramsey’s. Griffin didn’t trust his blocking – I think because his ankle wasn’t 100% – and because he didn’t trust his blocking he wasn’t seeing the field. Every time Griffin got rushed the past two seasons his go to move – even most of the time in college and in 2012 – is to take his eyes off downfield, fade backwards (out of the pocket) and to his right. This put the RG & RT in a really bad position as they were each trying to create a pocket for Griffin to step up into by pushing the rushers to the outside right but Griffin was fading right into those rushers.

    So, you can make the argument that many times Griffin was sacking himself on many plays. Everyone that knows football knows that OTs are taught to push their rushers to the outside and behind the qb on thenDEs speed rush. Well, if you have a qb who doesn’t step up into the pocket and fades to the right at around 10 yards, you have a problem.

    This is the #1 thing Griffin has to fix. His pocket presence must improve, he must step up into the pocket the OL creates for him – even if it’s not perfect – keeping his eyes downfield and deliver the football.

    • colorofmyskinz - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:33 AM

      You nailed it here abanig! These “footwork” cries for help are about a whole lot more than just looking pretty before you set and throw, they are the backbone of timing and protection of the QB. You can’t hold LT and RT responsible for protection everywhere on the field.

      They are expected to protect a portion of the field and Griffin is expected to be in that portion. Many times it was opposite like you describe. Injuries could be causing his hesitancy to trust where that protection is design. And that creates a indecisive QB.

      Tough position for RG to develop. I hope he gets it because he could be special.

      • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:44 AM

        Well the good thing is Griffin is 100% healthy again, just like last year and he’s more comfortable in the offense because it’s his second year in Gruden’s scheme.

        Griffin also will have a more healthy Trent Williams – the man respinsible for Colt McCoy’s neck injury for failing to touch Robert Quinn – and Griffin will have a new and more talented RT with our fest round draft pick Brandon Scherff playing.

        We also should be tougher up the middle because Spencer long is bigger, tougher, stronger and nastier than Chris Chester could ever dream to be.

        • Skulb - Jul 14, 2015 at 7:02 AM

          Sure but it comes down to the same old boring timings here. If a QB needs three seconds to pass the ball on passing plays there are just two or three o-lines (Seattle, Dallas, New Orleans, maybe Baltimore) in the NFL that are good enough for that QB because it`s just too slow. If the condition for RGIII performing is that he has 3-3,5 seconds to dilly dally with the ball then I`m afraid he`ll never perform. It is not realistic to expect an elite performance from the line, at least not this year with so many new faces. And even then the blcking needs to be stellar as well, and all to accommodate a slow QB. Much better to fix it at the sources which is the half second delay with Griffin`s distribution. He should have a giant alarm clock on his head during this preseason that rings very loudly at 2,5 seconds from snap. Still got the ball? Try again!
          If he can get his process down to 2,5 seconds he can begin looking around for people to blame. Not before. If he has to he just has to throw some interceptions this year. In an isolated game it`s usually worse than a sack but it`s better for training a QB good habits. “GET RID OF THE FOOTBALL!”

          And oh boy it`s little league time with this stuff.

    • Cliff - Jul 14, 2015 at 1:44 PM

      Agree 100% that & him taking the proper drop being 3 or 5 will be a big difference. Trusting his read & let it rip.

  3. colorofmyskinz - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:57 AM

    Agreed sack are the issue for the most part. His biggest issue is he has to read the defense and his receivers have to read the defense and see the same thing. When they both see the same thing that might mean a different route slightly which they would both be on the same page and he could anticipate or the receiver would be which would decrease his Indecision.

    Rarely any of the passes that Griffin makes our due to the timing of the play almost every pass he makes his after he sees the receiver being open.

    This is why is holding onto the ball too long and this is what forces him to scramble so much. The footwork with three-step drop some five-step drops is what also helps the timing of the play so that he can release the ball before the receiver is open.

    Griffin rarely throws a timing ball where the ball is released before the receivers open and in the exact spot where the receiver knows to go.

    The footwork is also designed to put them in a protection pocket. If he doesn’t follow that footwork he won’t be protected.

    You have to ask yourself self this question:

    How many balls to the corner of the end zone does Griffin release before the receiver is open and you watch the receiver catch it on the corner?

    Zilch. He never trust the timing of the play and I don’t know how we get them to do that.

  4. troylok - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:12 AM

    The sacks are a result of not being to read defenses quickly. Joe Bugel used to say the guys up front have done their jobs if they give the QB three seconds. In three seconds the QB has to read his receiving options and let her fly. Sometimes that means throwing the ball away because no one is open. That isn’t the best thing that could happen when a QB drops back to pass but it is better than taking the sack.

    • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 7:04 AM

      Definitely, and throwing the ball away is better than throwing an int ala Cousins.

  5. Mike Shannon - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:26 AM

    I agree, he needs pocket presence, but its hard to step up in the pocket when you’re getting pressure in your face as well. I think training camp is going to matter the most this year, because he has to learn to trust his blocking, and if his blocking is shaky in training camp and preseason then he wont trust it in the games and then you will see a lot of the the same rg3, not anticipating throws and holding onto the ball entirely too long which will put him outside the pocket to make plays. Hopefully he has learned to keep his eyes down field, because there is too much talent on the field to not get the ball in other guys hands. If he can learn to anticipate more throws and throw guys open instead of waiting for them to get open then this key stat of sacks per pass attempt will drastically go down and the offense will run at a higher rate

  6. Skulb - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:52 AM

    To quote my actual bumper sticker: “THROW THE BALL!”

  7. sidepull - Jul 14, 2015 at 7:05 AM

    Great article. Really cant expand on your take. He either plays smarter or they will yank him. I saw he patience with 3 running thin last year. I just cannot imagine they will tolerate that this year. He has to limit taking sacks in increase completions.

  8. timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:35 AM

    Rich since you have Premium access to Pro Football Focus. Can you Please Post the TIME TILL PRESSURE STATs and the TIME TO THROW stats so we can Compare them…..Also Football Outsiders Does Break Down who’s fault the Sacks are I’ve Posted the Link for The 2013 Chart Again I believe you need Premium access for these Stats if you have access could you please Post them too….. I would get access and Post them but would probably just be called a liar and told I made them up which I don’t do. Thanks.

  9. timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:36 AM

    I will answer this one tonight after I get off work when I have more time.

  10. gurnblanstonreturns - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:55 AM

    Good analysis, but breaking down Griffin’s different metrics by whomever’s formula du jour is not the most telling thing I’ve seen. The game film does not lie. Go back to the Bucs and 49ers games and you will see a QB that just can’t play pro football. Griffin’s most glaring weaknesses are on display in these games – he does not keep his eyes down the field, perform standard 5- and 7-step drops or throw any anticipation passes. Some of the still shots show 3, 4 and sometimes 5 open receivers, no pressure on Griffin and still he is sacked, runs or settles for the check down. There is nothing in his past to suggest that he will improve dramatically in any of these basic areas of quarterbacking in the NFL. He ran a schoolyard college offense at Baylor without a route tree. He ran a similar offense in his first year in 2012. His otherworldly talents allowed for his success in college and as a rookie. But, in the NFL, there are two inescapable realities: (1) if the system exposes you to a lot of hits by NFL defenders, you will get hurt; and (2) you show a month of game film to any NFL defensive coordinator worth his salt and he will stop your newfangled wrinkle and force you to beat him another way. Now, that Griffin is two serious injuries into his NFL career, on top of serious injuries in college, his athleticism has suffered. As I tell fellow Skins fans all the time – I would love to eat heaping mounds of crow and cheer Griffin on to a Hall of Fame career with the Skins, but I don’t think he can play pro QB.

    • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM

      I would say that all quarterbacks can improve if they put the work in and receive solid coaching. Let’s remember that Griffin didn’t have a qb coach last year and because of his ankle injury he missed two months of practice and game time. He also had a new wr who is drastically faster than anything he was used to throwing to the previous two years.

      Hence, he needed time to develop and adjust. And, by the time the second Giants game rolled around Griffin started to adjust and play better in Gruden’s offense. His last three games he showed progress over how he played against Tampa and San Fran.

      Also, need I remind people that in those two games Griffin didn’t have Trent Williams protecting his blind side or in the Tampa game Trent could barely move.

      These things affect a developing qb and yes Griffin is developing. I know skins fans don’t like to hear it because Griffin was the 2nd overall pick and we traded three draft picks to get him but it’s true, as a pocket passer Griffin is still developing.

      Any idiot could have told you this when we drafted him. All the experts that were honest said how much work he’d need as a pocket passer because he’s not been that ever.

    • haruhanami - Jul 17, 2015 at 3:39 PM

      Using two of his worst games doesnt proove that he cant play the position. If thats the case you could do that for every QB who played. For example, Russell Wilson in the playoff game against Green Bay.

  11. xskulldog - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:59 AM

    Rich Baby, You Nailed IT! If RGIII can get his sack rate between 4% and 6%, that lone should be a tremendous help. abanig made an interesting point about RGIII fading on his drop back. I thought it was my imagination, but you nailed it. RGIII needs to be where his blockers expect and step up into the pocket while keeping his eyes on down field. He did a terrible job of with pocket presence last year and that is why his sack total was so high.

    Gruden could do a better job of play calling with more roll-outs, screen passes, draw plays and play action. Dumping the ball off to the Morris should be used more. Morris has decent hands and should be more of a weapon. If Gruden can call the right plays and spread the ball around while keeping the defense off balance, that will help decrease his sack total as well.

    The next thing that needs to be fixed is the defensive secondary, they stink. After that, clean up Special Teams and we have a chance to compete with the Eagles, Giants and Boys, HTTR!

    • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 4:00 PM

      The secondary did stink the past three years but I think we have to wait and see how this year’s group performs before labiling them horrible.

      We signed Chris Culliver who is every bit of a #1 corner, we traded for Dashon Goldson who isn’t what he was 3 years ago but is better than any FS the skins have had since Sean Taylor, we signed Jerron Johnson who learned behind Earl Thomas and Cam chancellor the past few years and we will be getting DHall & Ihenacho back from injury.

      I’m not thinking our secondary is going to be top 10 in the league, but it should be light years better than the secondaries we’ve fielded since 2011 when our secondary was above average.

    • berniebernard666 - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:39 PM

      skulldog I mean no disrepect but are you keeping up with the offseason? I mean have you paid attention to any of the moves the Redskins have made? I wasn’t sure because you said quote “The next thing that needs to be fixed is the defensive secondary, they stink.” In case you haven’t heard Ryan Clark is no longer on the team, Brandon Merriweather is a free agent, E.J. Biggers is gone, and Tracy Porter has been cut.

      So I just thought for informational purposes I would let you know what has been going on in the offseason. The Redskins do not have the same secondary as last year. They have added Jerron Johnson from Seattle, Goldston from Tampa, Chris Culliver from San Francisco, and Duke Ianacho is also back after sitting out last year with an injury. So completely different secondary. Thought you would like to know so you could change your wording about “they stink” since this secondary has never played a down together. I didn’t want anybody to assume you were a fool just because you weren’t paying attention to the moves the Skins made.

      • xskulldog - Jul 15, 2015 at 1:03 PM

        berniebernard666, I will agree that on paper, the secondary personnel have changed quite a bit, but the bad taste in my mouth from last years play still lingers. Even abanig quoted that the secondary DID stink last 3 years…Until the regular season starts and we evidence of some improvement, I will stick with my STINK assessment.

        I guess I am a fool if I believe the secondary will play better just because the personnel have changed. They changed personnel the last three years, and they still stink. Thanks for pointing that out, I can’t believe what I was thinking?

        • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:25 PM

          The secondary hasn’t been a over average since 2011 when they were ranked 13th in pass defense and the redskins were tied for 10th in sacks that year also. Coincidentally that was the year where our defense had little to no injuries. Bowen, Carriker, Cofield, Fletcher, and Orakpo all stayed healthy.

        • xskulldog - Jul 15, 2015 at 5:37 PM

          Agreed…Hopefully, with a new defensive coordinator and some new schemes. our defense will get back to attacking the offense (smash mouth football) and keeping them guessing instead of trying to react to what they are doing. Injuries to Orakpo, Hall, cornerbacks and safeties really hurt them last year. That is why depth is so important in the NFL. You have to have quality backups because your third string guy could be the starter, due to a couple of freak injuries.

          By the way, I used to read posts from a guy that called himself “Skin me Alive”. Anyone hear from this guy recently, he was great at rebutting posts from enemy teams. HTTR

  12. timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 14, 2015 at 10:11 AM

    I read an interesting article by Pro Football Focus about RBs hit the Most Behind The Line of Scrimmage…Alfred Morris was by hit the most behind the line of scrimmage. He was hit 70 times compared to the next highest 44 times thats pretty bad and shows how much this Oline was Pushed Around last year.

    • Dexter J - Jul 14, 2015 at 11:46 AM

      Great stat to know timwillhide, About hits on Morris behind line of scrimmage. Thank you for posting.

      • sidepull - Jul 14, 2015 at 12:36 PM

        yup and he still got yards.

        • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 1:54 PM

          Yeah Morris did an amazing job when getting hit behind the line of scrimmage and still getting positive yards.

          Our qbs struggled when he got any little bit of pressure around them. Two of them took bad sacks instead of throwing the ball away and one of them threw bad ints instead of throwing the ball away, climbing up in the pocket/stepping up in the pocket/ or sliding to where there was little rush while keeping their eyes downfield.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:43 PM

          In Run Blocking the Oline is supposed to have the Advantage. They know the snap count and are able to fire off the ball to make the initial push to drive their guy back. While the Defense is expecting run and just trying to plug the holes. IIf they are getting Crushed in this area of Blocking Why wouldn’t they be doing Worse in Pass Blocking where they are at a disadvantage trying to hold there guy back while the Defense is Teeing Off on them. Every Stat I’ve seen That Rates the Oline and The Oline has a major effect on points to this being an Oline that got Pushed around and is Very bad. As the saying goes IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT.

  13. 226thebeatdontstop - Jul 14, 2015 at 1:43 PM

    I can’t wait till the season starts,I’m so sick of this local media. Radio, TV, beat writers focusing everything this team does on one guy, RG3. Yes he is an important component but defense wins championships.

    In my view Gruden and Mcveighs play calling was poor at best, Gruden didn’t know his personnel an recently admitted he had Garcon lined up on the wrong side of field all season.

    Gruden an McVeigh abandoned the run too quick,any adversity an they have up on it. RG3 was hurt all last season, this staff should have called more play action.bootlegs, and rollouts. None of that works unless you commit to running at least 20-25 times a game whether it’s successful or not.

    The defense was pathetic last year but I feel this year they will be dominant if I’m correct this will help out the offense. Maybe the media can scrutinize Grudens game day play calling and lack of halftime adjustments or look into why pressuring quarterbacks has been an issue with this team for years, is it scheme, coaching or players.

    RG3 improves because the new GM brought in better players an addressed areas that needed upgrades. HTTR

    • Rich Tandler - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:36 PM

      Local media write about Griffin a lot because a) he’s the most important single player on the team and b) he is who people want to read about. I can write about the offensive line or cornerbacks all day and it’s relative crickets compared to what a post about Griffin will do. That doesn’t stop me from writing about them–between here and CSN I provide as much variety of topics as anyone covering any NFL team anywhere–but I’m not doing my job to my employer or the people who want to read about Griffin or to full coverage of the team if I don’t write about Griffin frequently. Welcome to reality.

      • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 12:16 AM

        The debates we get into about the Oline I doubt you’ll hear crickets. See my comment above for an Ideafor an article or articles

      • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 12:19 AM

        Infact Rich with all the debates and links we have posted about the Oline plus stats Ive mentioned that that you have access to that I don’t we have done most of the leg work for you lol

  14. mr.moneylover - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:13 PM

    The O-line…if they cant fix the O-line redskins will struggle to score points like last year….with rg3 ill say bein accurate in the pocket …last year djax will be wide open down field for a touchdown but rg3 will simply over throw djax or sometimes he will under throw djax and djax will get tackled for a big gain but really it should’ve been a touchdown he also will at wide receivers instead of throwing the ball in front of wide receivers when them slant routes miss p.garcon to often last year because of that

  15. kenlinkins - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:24 PM

    IMO it doesn’t matter if the Redskins (RG3) sack problem was caused by poor defense, bad O-Line play, poor pass blocking by RB’s and TE, problems at the QB position or anything else you might want to name. Other teams saw a weakness and gained the upper hand by coming after the Redskins QB and as a group / team that MUST stop if the Redskins are going to be able start repairing any and all the above. Great job by Rich to stat out the “what” , now the Redskins must figure out the “how” (as in HOW to fix it). IMO no one problem or person can cause a 13.4% sack rate.

  16. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:29 PM

    I see the same hating on the messenger at Keim’s place.

    Face it people, we won 7 games the last 2 seasons. There’s plenty of blame to go around, and given how the rules have changed, of course most of it goes to the QB and coach.

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 14, 2015 at 4:08 PM

      You had 3 QBs starting last year so which do you blame?

      • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 4:17 PM

        They’re all to blame, along with the OL, position players that didn’t play up to their abilities. The defense that was extremely inconsistent and blew many coverages. The list goes on and on including the coaching staff which did not do a good job.

        • kenlinkins - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:25 PM

          I could not of said it better myself. IMO the list of “blame” is very very long!

        • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 8:04 PM

          Well if Redskins fans are being honest with themselves they would realize that here are our wins per games the qb started and finished:

          1. Griffin – 1
          2. McCoy – 1
          3. Cousins – 0

          People can talk about how many yards a qb threw for and how pretty they looked in the pocket till they’re blue in the face but the truth is none of these qbs got the job done last year. None of them were clutch, they couldn’t consistently make the plays necessary to win the team games in the fourth quarter and they made too many mistakes.

          A lot of people love Cousins because he threw for a lot of yards, but when he got in the redzone the offense still stalled and failed to put up enough points to win. So, while Cousins looks pretty, he failed when he needed to get the job done also.

          Cousins certainly had 6 consecutive games – the most of our 3 QBs consecutively – in the first two months of the season to take the Redskins starting qb job by the horns and run with it.

          I know his apologist don’t like to hear it but he failed also.

  17. RussianBreadMaker - Jul 14, 2015 at 2:37 PM

    Simple… Ownership

  18. bangkokben - Jul 14, 2015 at 3:55 PM

    Great work Rich! I doubt Griffin could get down to 4% – at least not in the next couple of years – but the league average would be reasonable. Griffin’s sack rates by season:

    2014 13.4%
    2013 7.7%
    2012 7.1%

    So Griffin was bad in 2014. The popular rationale suggested by fans for this significant change are: the o-line, the coach, the type of offense, and Griffin. Some who take the latter point of view feel that improvement by Griffin is a pipe dream. Yet since he returned from the bench to the starting role (the last two games of the season), his sack rate was 7.2%. His net yards per attempt for those games was 7.45. Although, this was a VERY small sample, it was significant improvement from the rest of the season and perhaps numbers that we can expect as a starting point for the second year in this offense.

    • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 14, 2015 at 4:21 PM

      “The popular rationale suggested by fans for this significant change are: the o-line, the coach, the type of offense, and Griffin.’

      It’s all the above Bang IMO!

      • bangkokben - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:29 PM

        Of course it is. It rarely is just one thing. But just like Miller Lite we can never agree on which is more important. Tastes great or less filling?

    • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:48 AM

      Why do you People keep saying these are RG3’s Sack Rates They Are Not. Those Rates were Caused By The Team Oline, RB,TE,QB. 1 person did not cause that high rate. This is a Team Stat Not an Individual Stat

      • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:55 AM

        I ment to put acting like instead of saying

      • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 7:12 AM

        That’s not what anyone is saying. It’s more complicated than just saying it’s the OL’s fault.

        You can’t just look at a sack total on an offense and say they are all on the offensive line – that’s the lazy way out.

        When you watch and break down each sack throughout the season as Chris Cooley does, he breaks down the blame.

        If helu or Morris missed a block, he’ll put that on then. If a te got beat or missed a block he’ll say it’s their fault. If an OL missed a block or for best he’ll say it’s their fault.

        And lastly if the qb has horrible pocket presence and doesn’t get rid of the ball on time and fast enough he’ll say it’s their fault.

        He breaks down the qbs drop back, what they saw or didn’t see in coverage and why didn’t they see something else. If there footwork is bad and timing is bad he brings that up. Cooley is brutally honest in his play evaluation on both sides of the ball.

        So, film don’t lie brother. With your own eyes you can see that “at times” particularly the Tampa & SF game that around 1/2 of those sacks were on the qb. In the Minnesota game if memory serves me correctly 2 or 3 of the sacks Cooley laid at the foot of Griffin.

        So, when I said half of Griffin’s sacks were his fault, perhaps I was exaggerating by a few, but not much.

        Honestly, the blame is probably nearly evenly divided between the OL, the QB and other blockers.

      • bangkokben - Jul 15, 2015 at 9:59 AM

        No. This is an individual stat. It is a stat measured for years on who? Quarterbacks. Sure the protection has a part in it as it does for McCoy and Cousins. Different results.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 10:56 AM

          It’s a team stat that shows how many times the QB was sacked. This stat is Mostly based off of the Oline’s performance. You try to use it as a QB individual stat like it is solely based off of his performance when it’s mainly based off of the Oline’s performance. Then you dismiss the 41 sacks that are attributed to the Oline in their actual Individual stats..They weren’t accused of committing all of them there are 17 that are one the QB,RB,and TE. The Sack Stat listed under the QB is the Total while he was in at QB. The way You try to represent it is they are all on the QB. If that was the case then Half the QBs would be causing high sacks when its really the Oline. You keep saying How Cousins was lower. Well Of course I wouldn’t rush a guy that is gonna throw me the ball.

        • bangkokben - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:46 PM

          You can’t have it both ways! This is a Griffin stat (13.2%). McCoy (11.7%) and Cousins (3.8%) have a different stats with the same o-line. Of course this stat could be different if there was a different line. Just like the 58 sacks, or the 41 sacks could be different for the o-line if there was a different QB. These stats go hand-in-hand. The fact that you can’t see that it is hand-in-hand is why Rich asked us to stop talking about it. It keeps going in circles. I’ve stayed away from it with you but since you insist, I’m back on the merry-go-round for this LAST ride. Btw: The team as a whole has a different stat (9.6%). That combines all three QB’s and is the o-line’s grade. Lower than two QBs; higher than one. Hand-in-hand.

          Here is what Keim put in his piece about Brunell’s critique of Griffin: “Again, take it for what it’s worth. Fellow guest Damien Woody disagreed with Brunell, by the way. He fingered the offensive line as the culprits (as I’ve said in the past, the coaches put perhaps half of the 58 sacks allowed last season on the protection; you can disagree or argue, but that’s their assessment but they also rightly felt the line needed to be upgraded and will have two new starters). Both Woody and Brunell agreed Griffin needed more help from his supporting cast – should that be the case for a guy who once was the No. 2 pick in the draft?”

          What is half of 33 (Griffin sacks)? 16.5. That’s pretty close to the 17 ‘missing’ sacks. Coincidence?

          True sack rate:

          This stat changes Griffin’s sack rate in 2013 from 7.69% to 7.53% changing it 0.16% indicating that the o-line was ever so slightly more responsible for the sacks. Here, however, is a quote from the piece: “Usually you start out thinking it’s all about the offensive line and protection, but the sack is actually very dependent on the quarterback.”
          Furthermore you have quoted QB Fault as 0% where this stat is defined: “QB Fault (QBF): Any time a quarterback “sacks himself” by tripping on his own feet, his lineman’s feet, or just dropping the ball without being hit.”
          This other stat that they used is coverage sack. Defined: “Coverage Sack (COV): A quarterback held the ball too long on a sack with sufficient protection.” In 2013, according to FO, Griffin held on the ball too long on 28.9% of his sacks. That doesn’t sound like too many but it was the 10th highest percentage of the QBs in sample and PROBABLY lower than 2014. Also, 42.1% of his sacks in 2013 were contributed to blown blocks. That sounds high but it is actually low; placing him 34th out of 42 QBs. Again these are Griffin stats that go hand-in-hand with the o-line. Good day. If you do get access to the 2014 true sack rate, I’d like to see it.

        • Rich Tandler - Jul 15, 2015 at 6:52 PM

          Hey, FYI, if you put multiple links into a post it goes into the spam folder. I don’t check that very often, I happened to catch this today.

        • bangkokben - Jul 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM

          Thanks Rich. Noted.

        • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 7:06 PM

          Nailed it!

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 16, 2015 at 2:28 AM

          I’ll get them and Coapy and past the info. I think If I share the link it will just take you to the page to join premium stats. I actually ran across an awesome site that gives play by play breakdowns and the all 22 film I’m gonna check into it a little more before I share the link. It looks promising but I haven’t had the time to truely see what its about

          I’ve bin saying it’s partly on RG3 just not as much as you do . Nice try in trying to spin the 41 sacks that the oline caused but the 17 is obviously not just RG3 infact youve stated that the RBs and TEs are responsible more than the Oline I think RG3 is responsible for between 7 and 10 sacks at the most but we will see

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 6:34 AM

          I agree with that, but this is the first time you’ve said that.

          Bang and I have been saying “about half” meaning it’s a guess or its around that #. That means 10-15 of Griffins 33 sacks probably fall at the feet of Griffin.

        • bangkokben - Jul 16, 2015 at 8:47 AM

          Yes. And we don’t know the criteria of the ‘o-line’ stats. For all we know, it could be the linemen closest to the QB when he’s tackled. Until I know the criteria, I’m more inclined to agree with the anecdotal evidence.

          “These guys are going to really struggle with the idea of how are we going to block for this guy? I don’t know how to block for this guy. He’s going to make us look bad. Because he’s setting up at nine yards, and I’m giving up a sack, but my entire career has been based on the idea that an edge set at nine yards is good enough for a quarterback to step up and throw the ball. He will not.”

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 9:15 AM

          Also, how many times did Griffin take a one or two step drop instead of a 3 or 5 step drop.

          If he got sacked after taking a one or two step drop that’s on Griffin.

          Think about it, once again the ok expects the qb to be 4 to 7 yards behind of scrimmage but he’s only one or two. It’s harder for the OL to protect a qb who’s that close to the line of scrimmage, especially when the doesn’t get the ball out on time.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 16, 2015 at 2:32 AM

          BTW Rich called us all out. I kept posting Different Stats to suport my side and you kept repeating the same sack total and percentage over and over thats why he said it was I. Circles IMO

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 6:20 AM

          I don’t understand why we can’t agree that the blame is likely shared equally between the offensive line’s mistakes, other blockers mistakes and the quarterback having poor pocket presence, poor footwork at times, not seeing the field at times and holding onto the ball too long at time.

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 6:31 AM

          So if that’s the case, at most, the offensive line is reponsible for 15 or so of Griffins sacks, at most poor blocking from the TEs & Backs is responsible for 15 and at most Griffin’s poor pocket presence and holding onto the ball too long attributed to 15 sacks.

          If your honestly asking me to guess the breakdown of where Griffins 33 sacks in 7 games lies, I’d say it’s this.

          – 15 can be attributed to the offensive line

          – 10 can be attributed to Griffin himself for having poor footwork, poor pocket presence or holding onto the ball to long

          – 8 can be attributed to running backs or tight ends either missing on blocks or not being able to hold blocks which led to Griffin being sacked

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 16, 2015 at 2:27 PM

          I believe Ive said before I blame 20% of the sacks on RG3 and that is just partly because at times he didn’t anticipate were the WR was gonna make his break.. You guys need to realize if it is a new system there will be plays he is not familiar with and Can’t anticipate the WRs break because he is not sure where it is. Time in the system will fix that. But Most of those sacks are on the Oline

        • bangkokben - Jul 16, 2015 at 6:26 PM

          I agree to disagree about the 20%. I do agree that time in the system will help. I expect his sack rate to be around 7% this year. If it is better, fantastic; if it is worse, we have problems – probably at QB but not necessarily. We will have to wait and see but I expect we will all see significant growth this year from Robert.

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 8:49 PM

          Well if agree with that comment but I certainly don’t remember you making it before and you did I apologize.

          20% of Griffin’s sacks is 6.6 or to round up its 7. I’d say 7 is the low end that he’s responsible for because of not taking the he correct # of steps in his drops, having poor pocket presence or not throwing the ball when he had open wrs but, it’s within the range is blame him for.

          I can easily say Griffin is responsible for getting sacked at least 7 times out of his 33 sacks and the high # would be he’s responsible for 12.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 16, 2015 at 2:40 PM

          That 20% of his sacks. Not of the 58

  19. RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 14, 2015 at 3:56 PM

    New research from Intentional Grounding and Football Perspective suggests that sack rate isn’t a valid stat for measuring QB quality:

    So, while posters focus too much on sacks, they overlook other more important aspects of quarterbacking such as yards/attempt (one of Griffin’s strengths) and touchdown rate (an area for improvement for Griffin; although touchdown rate isn’t as reliable as yards/attempt).

    • bangkokben - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:41 PM

      Dude. Thanks for giving the link, however, sack rate is used as a disqualifying statistic for QB quality.

      “Next, we turn to sack % and INT %, which are disqualifying statistics. By themselves, neither of these skills qualify a QB to play in the NFL. Anybody can avoid sacks or interceptions if they’re not worried about gaining yards. However, the inability to avoid sacks or interceptions will disqualify a QB from the NFL, regardless of how high his Y/A and TD % might be. I estimate these limits as roughly a true talent 12% sack rate and 4.5% INT rate. “

      • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 15, 2015 at 12:13 AM

        Right, and it’s a plausible hypothesis. But that only tell us what Griffin has to do just to stay in the NFL; and you, Rich Tandler, and other Redskins fans aren’t interested in minimum qualifying performance from the QB spot. Once a QB is able to stay in the NFL (which we refer to as replacement-level QBs), sack rate doesn’t seem to reflect QB quality.

        Here are a couple of things you have to remember:

        1. It’s not enough to look at sack rate; you also have to look at sack rate within the context of a particular NFL season. Griffin was incredibly and historically bad in this category in 2014 for QBs with at least 200 pass attempts. However, it’s also a comically freakish outlier from his sack rates in 2012 and 2013, even for someone who’s below average in avoiding sacks in the first place; this reflects a player who was clearly adapting to a new offense in just a handful of starts. Not only that, Colt McCoy had a huge drop-off in his sack rate index from his most recent season of starter quarterbacking in the NFL; his sack rate index in 2014 was also horrendous. Say whatever you want about Griffin, but when two of Gruden’s three QBs have issues with avoiding sacks to that degree when they did not have that issue at any other point in their careers, you have to look at other factors besides Griffin’s ability to avoid sacks (such as the coach’s ability to adapt his offense to his personnel).

        2. This is obviously a quick query and not a controlled study, but to further envince how much more important other stats such as yards per attempt are than sack rate, I used the Pro-Football Reference database to find all post-merger QB seasons with a replacement-level or lower sack rate index (93) and an average or higher yards per attempt index (100). About 60% of those seasons had an average or better adjusted net yards per attempt index. I then switched the criteria for sack rate and yards per attempt index — that is, a 93 or lower yards per attempt index and a 100 or higher sack rate index. Only about 20% of those seasons had an average or better adjusted net yards per attempt index. So, while Griffin can improve with avoiding sacks, it seems to matter much less than other stats where QB quality is concerned.

        • bangkokben - Jul 15, 2015 at 9:57 AM

          Each of the three QBs had to adjust to the offense. Even Cousins’ sack rate dropped from 3.0% to 3.6% (in a small sample size). Cousins is just one of those QBs that avoid sacks better. Like Marino, Manning, Brady and oh by the way Derek Carr. So, yes sack rate is not the end all be all stat for QB quality. It is an issue here for the whole chicken vs egg debate of o-line vs QB when it comes to the 2014 Redskins.

          So with Griffin, he didn’t qualify for this list this year as he did in 2012 and 2013 because of the outlier in sack rate. Where did he end on the list for seasons 2012 & 2013? Only the poster knows. Was his 2012 season ranked 101 or 1300? Don’t know. But as you said, 2014 was an outlier. You can say it was the coach or it may be it was Griffin adapting to a pure NFL-style offense for the 1st time. I don’t know. But moving forward Griffin has to avoid sacks – so that he isn’t replaced.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 16, 2015 at 12:08 AM

          Here’s Griffin’s seasonal sack% index since 2012 (100 is considered the average):

          ’12: 94
          ’13: 90
          ’14: 49

          One of these things…is not like the others.

          But really, Rich Tandler and others can’t observe these stats and believe that this is somehow inherent to Griffin’s QB ability. Just for kicks, here are the same numbers for Colt McCoy’s for the games he started in the NFL:

          ’10: 76
          ’11: 98
          ’14: 61

          Sure, McCoy sat on the bench for several seasons in-between starts, but after struggling with sacks in his rookie season, he had a decent sophomore season in sack rate index. He’s now in his prime, and is even considered to be a journeyman vet, and yet he’s back to taking sacks like he’s a rookie?!

          What changed? Here’s one main thing that’s changed for the two QBs: Gruden and his offense.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 16, 2015 at 12:25 AM

          And I goofed by saying that McCoy was back to taking sacks like he did in his rookie season. Not even that — that’s a 15 point dropoff in sack rate index, which is huge.

        • bangkokben - Jul 16, 2015 at 11:13 AM

          Your hypothesis has some holes. What are Cousins’ and Dalton’s indexes? Seems to me if Gruden’s offense was the problem you’d see the same kind of drop in Cousin’s index from ’13 to ’14 as Griffin and McCoy’s as well as a poor score for Dalton’s rookie year.

          It has been my hypothesis all along that Shanahan’s O-lines don’t work for other NFL offenses – see rushing stats – and the adjustment for Griffin to a NFL pocket. As for McCoy maybe it was the layoff but I’m more inclined to believe that it is due to the Rams game being a significant part of his sample.

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 11:26 AM

          I agree with most of this. The only think I disagree with is that the Shanahan offenses don’t work in the nfl. They certainly do, the problem is we still had Shanahan left over OL playing and they never could hold up well against the drop back pass. If Gruden had called some read option with Griffin – like he did with Colt McCoy – and ran more bootlegs with Griffin and play action, our offense would have been better.

          The problem with last year was Griffin got hurt, missed two months and Gruden was stuck with many Shanahan left overs that didn’t fit the type of offensive linemen that he was accustomed to having in Cincy.

          This year they’ve replaced the two 300 pound veterans on the right side with two young guys who are north of 310 pounds. That should make a difference in pass protection.

          That being said, Griffin must improve as well in the pocket and in getting the ball out faster.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 16, 2015 at 1:31 PM


          I’m not saying that Gruden’s offense doesn’t work; I’m saying that the way Gruden implements his offense based on the skillsets of his players is perhaps a problem. Griffin and McCoy (mobile QBs) are different types of QBs than Dalton and Cousins (pocket QBs).

        • abanig - Jul 16, 2015 at 11:51 PM

          Dalton is every bit as mobile as McCoy and Cousins is athletic also. Griffin just isn’t experienced enough in the drop back offense yet. Hopefully he makes big strides this year.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 16, 2015 at 2:16 PM


          And yes, the sample size for McCoy’s performance is small (145 dropbacks), but then again, the same can be said for Griffin’s performance (247 dropbacks). In both cases, those are small sample sizes; a QB should get at least around 320 dropbacks for metrics such as adjusted net yards per attempt to have some use. If you want to use the 2014 season as analysis, you have to be fair and use the games that we have for both players.

          Here are McCoy’s sack rates per 2014 game:

          Titans: 14% (14 dropbacks)
          Cowboys: 9% (33 dropbacks)
          Colts: 11% (53 dropbacks)
          Rams: 16% (43 dropbacks)
          Giants: 0% (7 dropbacks)

          The 2014 NFL average sack rate was 6%. So, it’s not as if McCoy was playing like the average QB in sack rate during his other games and had an “off-game” against the Rams. In fact, I don’t even know why that game is brought up, because we know that Griffin would not be excused anyway if he had the same game against the Rams.

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 17, 2015 at 12:46 AM

          Cousins’s athleticism is not relevant. I’m referring to the playing styles of the QBs, and Cousins doesn’t run a lot — only once for every 33 of his dropbacks. However, I did underestimate Dalton’s propensity to run, and overestimated McCoy’s. Dalton has a QB rush for about every 11 of his dropbacks; McCoy has one for about every 8 of his dropbacks.

          With that said, McCoy isn’t playing in the same offense that he played in Cleveland, and his having to adjust to Gruden’s offense could likely have something to do with his dropoff in sack rate.

        • abanig - Jul 17, 2015 at 1:32 AM

          Gruden called a read option play once for Cousins once last year and I think he ran 11 yards right up the gut.

          Cousins is sneaky athletic

        • RealRedskinsPoster - Jul 17, 2015 at 12:49 AM

          My previous post is a response to abanig’s post.

  20. redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 14, 2015 at 4:20 PM

    A beautifully written article. It really makes clear that if you reduce the sacks to even an average from last season then RG3’s performance could have revealed a different Quarterback.

    I’d only add that many here will never accept the coming from Baylor he had a significant learning curve when it comes to playing in the pocket. So much of this pocket issues might have been already worked out if it wasn’t for a severe knee injury, front office drama, and a rookie coach that wasn’t fairing so well as an OC before his arrival.

  21. berniebernard666 - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    I don’t care about Griffins “metrics” etc etc…..I am just going to state my opinion which is what everyone is doing.

    I think Kirk Cousins will be the starting QB at some point this season. I think regardless of injury, Griffin is going to be replaced. I think Griffin does not get it. “yea yea coach I got it” is not getting it. He continues to lie, whether to himself or us. He continues to be delusional. He remains spoiled and pampered and the NFL is not a place where pampered people exist for long.

    I watch Griffins face when he is talking, and I don’t see any humble. I don’t hear any honesty about his past failings. He is always talking about moving forward, always saying that it’s not about him its about his teammates, etc. Hey that’s nice but we all know it really is about him. I am tired of Mr Sensitive and Mr Disingenuous. If the lightbulb were on, he would talk about his failings to read defenses. His deer in the headlights look. But instead he is defiant. Telling us that we need to drop this stuff about reading defenses. REALLY? Because I could swear I saw receivers waving their arms while he stood in the pocket staring into space while waiting and waiting for the pass rushers to creep up on him.

    But hey, enough about my opinion. I would love for RG3 to have a great year and I wish him the best. It’s just that my prediction is the opposite. From what I have seen, I see the quiet workmanlike Kirk Cousins going about his business and waiting for his opportunity…..and it’s coming this year.

    • gasngo14 - Jul 14, 2015 at 6:29 PM

      I say you are correct and it’s too bad but sometimes the truth hurts. This goes to RG3 and the fans who continue to make excuses for the reality of his play! Hope we are wrong but i’m not seeing any actions to lead me believing different. As for Kirk you maybe spot on. He has done exactly what you said in college so it would not surprise me beings he has done it before so he surely has the heart and the fight in him to overcome such a circus that has welcomed him into the NFL.

    • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 7:52 PM

      What’s worse?

      A) having a hard time admitting that the NFL is harder as a QB than you thought it was when you were a rookie?

      B) Or crying like a 5 year old every time you throw an interception and not wanting to talk to anyone and sticking your head in between your legs on the bench.

      A. is Griffin
      B. Is Cousins

      • gasngo14 - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:17 PM

        Not sure you can call your assessment (B) the truth, maybe just your biased opinions :)

        • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 9:29 PM

          It was widely reported last year that Cousins confidence was shot and he couldn’t get past his mistakes after the Giants & Arizona games. That’s why when he threw the int at the end of the half against Tenn he was benched.

          Cousins can’t handle the pressure, he can’t get past the bad play he just made and move on to the next one. He wasn’t providing inspiration to the team.

        • gasngo14 - Jul 14, 2015 at 10:07 PM

          That’s a better assessment then (B) above, and if you want to sling mud there is plenty to sling in the other direction as well :)

        • abanig - Jul 14, 2015 at 10:41 PM

          I was clearly exaggerating. Sorry… ;)

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 15, 2015 at 8:43 AM

          Actually Rich also mentioned in a comment in an earlier article that Cousins threw interceptions regularly in practice too so him throwing picks seems like something he just does.

        • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 9:11 AM

          I’ve always said Cousins has “a little Rex Grossman in him” maybe it’s more than “a little” maybe it’s A LOT!

  22. Asnakes - Jul 14, 2015 at 5:25 PM

    Good article

  23. hk2000 - Jul 15, 2015 at 9:09 AM

    It’s a team game and no one person is reponsible for ANY of the sacks, but if you insist, I think the coach and the coach alone is to blame. every one on here is swatting wildly at this, that and the other, but no one mentions the coach- he is the point man, the leader, the planner, and the commander gerneral- all failures are on him and all success-if it ever comes- should be assigned to him. Again I’m going to repeat what I’ve been saying all along, last year befor the season began, he saw that he did not have the pieces necessary to run his offense, but did not bother to do anything about it, and tried to force feed it to his QBs and mediocre line. Instead of scheming up a more suitable offense (doubt he has it in him), he wanted to win games 13-10. So, not only is he incompetent as an offensive play caller, he was so delusional as to think his defense was going to hold teams to 10 points. I know some people would like me to shut it, and just forget about what he did last season and move on as if the coach had suddenly got a divine revelation and transformed into some formidable football mind, but I just don’t see how any fan of this team can get over that point- especially when that attitude comes from people who would jump at any chance to criticize the QB play ( You know who you are, Cooley disciples)

    • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 9:43 AM

      I get what you’re saying but the truth is coaches don’t play the game.

      The players have to execute the play called and that’s on them.

      Ask any reasonable player on the Redskins roster about the mistakes the team made last year and they won’t blame the coaches they’ll say “we” the players or “I” have to play better and I or We can’t make that mistake.

  24. Redskins_USA's Team - Jul 15, 2015 at 12:11 PM

    Great read as always, Rich!

    Very interesting stats–while I know you wouldn’t say the sack rate isn’t the only indicator of success/failure for a QB, it surely is a fair one to use in conjunction with all the others to paint the entire picture: Griff simply has to improve in this area, (and some others), period. Curious also if an emphasis on time of possession maybe played into that at all?

    It would seem to me that the depleted defense had WAY too much pressure on them last season–for the majority of every game. Is this a “chicken and the egg” situation where culpability is hard to place or can we definitively say one unit more negatively impacted the other? Cuz my TV got yelled at so much last season, that it will tell you the offense had more blame to take than the defense! Lol (Also Haz gets a bad rap for their poor play–they really let him and the team down last year. Haz botched some calls “blitz!” an was far from perfect, but he did the best he could with what he had IMO and better results on D this year I think can be more attributed to Scoty M’s addition of manpower versus the subtraction of Haz. And I’m not trying to knock Joe Barry at all, I really like him based on what I’ve read from your articles about him these past few months Rich, but just saying I think Haz is unfairly labeled as a reason the D sucked last year by many fans and I just don’t think that’s accurate). Luckily our savior Scoty has added much needed depth to the defense, and it would seem like Joe Barry has the support of the D thus far. Things look much better.

  25. warpath1 - Jul 15, 2015 at 12:42 PM

    anyone who watched the games last year should have clearly seen what I saw, some of the worst QB play ive seen on a redskins team in a long time. Foget about all of the stupid time to pressure, etc. stats, make it easy and just look at the plays where the QB had time (3 secs) and still looked just plain lost. I hope one or more of them will be able to play the position to the level we all hope this year, i just dont think we have our 2017 starter on the roster. We need to find someone who will be happy to spend a couple of years learning on the bench until then

    • abanig - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:21 PM

      I fear that as well, but I don’t want to believe it just yet.

      I actually think that Colt McCoy could be like Rich Gannon was for the Raiders a decade ago for the Redskins if he gets the chance.

      • warpath1 - Jul 15, 2015 at 2:45 PM

        stranger things have happened. Trent Dilfer went to the super bowl! Archives

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