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Need to Know: The top five QBs the Redskins will face in 2015

Jul 8, 2015, 5:01 AM EDT

Kerrigan-Romo

Here is what you need to know on this Wednesday, July 8, 22 days before the Washington Redskins start training camp.

Nickel coverage: The top passers

Training camp is just a few weeks away and it’s time to start honing in on the Redskins’ opponents for the 2015 season. Here are the quarterbacks who should provide the severest tests for the Redskins’ revamped secondary, the top five QB’s they will face this year (ranked by passer rating).

1. Tony Romo, Cowboys (113.2 rating, 1st in NFL)—I know Redskins fans like to laugh at Romo and talk about some issues he’s had with ill-timed interceptions. But he led the NFL in completion percentage, touchdown pass percentage and passer rating and engineered four fourth-quarter comebacks. He’s as dangerous as them come.

2. Tom Brady, Patriots (97.4, 5th)—Even if the footballs are properly inflated Brady should have a pretty good day against the Redskins. The Patriots don’t have a receiver who will keep Joe Barry up late and they don’t have a workhorse running back to wear down the defense. All they need is Brady.

3. Drew Brees, Saints (96.5, 6th)—He’ll put 350 yards up on you without breaking a sweat. One thing to watch is his problems with ball protection. His interception rate of 2.6 percent was higher than any other QB thought to be very good or elite except for Phillip Rivers. He has put the ball on the ground 19 times the last three years, a total that is alarming even considering he led the league in pass attempts.

4. Matt Ryan, Falcons (93.9, 11th)—Last year he got back Julio Jones, who missed most of 2013 with an injury, and added a full yard to his average net yards/attempt total. Ryan is a cut or two beneath the elite quarterbacks in the game but still a top-quality signal caller.

5. Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins (92.8, 14th)—Would the Redskins have been better off if they had stayed put with the sixth pick of the 2012 draft, taken Tannehill, and kept all those other picks they dealt away to move up to take Robert Griffin III? We won’t find out a definitive answer in the season opener but it will be interesting to get a firsthand look at the QB who hasn’t lit up the league but still was good enough for the Dolphins to believe he warranted a $95 million extension.

Timeline

—It’s been 192 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be 67 days until they play the Dolphins at FedEx Field.

Days until: Redskins training camp starts 22; Preseason opener @ Browns 36; final cuts 59

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In case you missed it

  1. abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:25 AM

    I’m not worried about Romo or Tanehill, the rest of the top 5 is tough. The Redskins Have never come close to beating Brady and Brees is always tough. Matt Ryan along with Kyle Shanahan’s outside zone running game is going to give the Redskins fits.

    In my personal opinion, I don’t think Tanehill is any better than Kirk Cousins and if Kirk had played all 16 games last year, Kirk would have put up better numbers.

    Griffin has a higher ceiling than Tanehill, health is the key for Griffin & the Redskins kill players to gel this year.

    • kenlinkins - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:47 AM

      I am not sure if I agree about Ryan Tannehill, he could be set up to be the break out QB of 2015. I am not saying I would have wanted him here in DC as he was picked pretty high by Miami (same would have been true if the Redskins stayed at number 6 in 2012) who was looking for a QB and could not pass on him, but most had him listed as “risky” in the top 15 picks (and RG3 was not listed as risky).

      • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:22 AM

        I don’t agree that Tanehill is set to “break out” and be anything better than he was last year. For one, he faces some of the toughest defenses in the NFL in his own division.

        Two, there’s nothing elite about the Dolphins offense. They have no elite playmakers – including Tanehill. I predict he’ll have a similar type season that he had last year which will be slightly above average.

        For all of his faults, all mike Wallace does is score touchdowns and always has since his days at Pittsburgh. Who’s going to replace Wallace’s 10 tds in the Dolphins we core? Kenny Stills? I don’t think so…

        I’m thinking 4000 yds and 22 tds with 15 ints is my predicting and I predict RG3 will have similar stats.

        • nathansworldorder - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:44 AM

          The Redskins have two great receivers in Garçon and DJax. Yet they still only won 4 games. It’s not always about the WR talent you have around you. The best QBs make their receivers better. Outside of Gronk, Brady doesn’t have anything special. He just makes them look that way. Lol

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:57 AM

          While true… Tanehill has NEVER proven himself to be anything approaching even Matt Ryan status as a qb.

        • nathansworldorder - Jul 8, 2015 at 7:10 AM

          Most definitely. He’s not even on Andrew Lucks level right now. I think he will end up being a good to maybe great starter in the long run. I don’t see him becoming elite though.

        • kenlinkins - Jul 8, 2015 at 10:14 AM

          Like I said ” I am not sure”, you could be 100% right. I have watch this kid with interest and he does seem to learn, move on to the next area and learn again. His numbers show he is getting better each year. While they are still pretty avg for starting QB’s and to date he has not broken out of the pack he sure seems to have the tools. Time will tell.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 10:36 AM

          A QB also needs a Good Oline. If you have a bad Oline like Ours Ranked 31st then you are gonna have bad QB play.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM

          Yes, the Dolphins had a better pass blocking OL from 2012-2014, it remains to be seen if our OL will be better in 2015 thanks to the young bucks on the right side.

          It also helps the OL when you have a qb who gets the ball out on time with he his 3 step and 5 step drops. Really, it goes both ways. The entire offense needs to be in cohesion for plays to work and for the offense to be good to great, the redskins have struggled with that cohesion and consistency the past two seasons due to injuries to key players, poor playcalling and turnover at the WR position.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM

          We had the 3rd best pass blocking o-line when Cousins was quarterback.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:11 PM

          Exactly and we were probably middle of the road when McCoy was starting and McCoy hadn’t started a game in 2.5 years when he finally got to play against Tennessee.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:24 PM

          No actually Cousins numbers were so significantly different that they helped bring down the teams from both Robert and Colt. Sack rate by QB. Cousins 3.6%, McCoy 11.7% and Griffin 13.6% Projected sacks over a whole season: Cousins 23, McCoy 71, Griffin 80. Actual sacks 58.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:10 PM

          41 of 58 sacks sre credited to the Olinemen and were ranked 31st by football outsiders snd Tne NFL.I have posted the sites thst back this up.

          Bang where are you getting the info thst they were ranked 3rd when Cousins was in? I wouldn’t mind looking at those stats myself.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:15 PM

          Who you gonna trust, those ananymous guys or Chris Cooley &
          Doc Walker?

          I’ll go with the guys who watch everything that goes on with the redskins multiple times all season and break down game film more than the players who’s are actually playing for the redskins today.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:14 PM

          Bang I don’t know about thst stat but I do know he was leading the league in turnovers. I forget where I read that but will look it up later for ya.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:41 PM

          So your saying Football Outsiders who’s bin doing it before Cooley was playing and its there job to break down film and The NFL are puting out fack stats? Same with the Washington Post? And they all seem to have the same stats????????? Ya you are right its a conspiracy. We better believe the guys chaing Ratings and their Opinion. Lets ignore actual stats that are fact.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:08 PM

          No, I’m saying I value Cooley & Doc’s opinion on football and what they see on game film and in practice every day more than football outsiders.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:47 PM

          Was Will Montgomery so important to pass protection? The stats say he could be. The Redskins gave up 58 sacks in 2014 and only 43 sacks in 2013. Montgomery was the starting center for the Redskins in 2013 and became Denver’s starter in 2014. The Broncos gave up just 17 sacks in 2014, which is an improvement from the 20 sacks the gave up in 2013. So was Montgomery the key variable? Or are linking these stats with Montgomery similar to linking NBA championships to Robert Horry? The point is you can make conclusions that are not entirely true based on statistics. You could conclude that if you wanted to win an NBA championship in the early 2000s you HAD to have Robert Horry on your team. Sure the statistics are accurate but do they give a complete picture?

          Similarly, we can look at Tim’s stats. They are true. But do they give a complete picture?
          Here’s some more stats related to Tim’s. Griffin was sacked 33 of the 58 times. He is therefore only credited with 217 pass attempts. This was by far the highest rate in the league. Colt McCoy was sacked 17 times and Kirk Cousins only 8 times. McCoy had 128 attempts while Cousins had 204. Using math, we get a team sack rate of 9.6%. Yet if you break it down by quarterback: Griffin had a rate of 13.2%, McCoy 11.7%, and Cousins 3.8%. You could then project what the total sacks would be for the o-line had each of the QBs been the sole starter: Griffin 80, McCoy 71, and Cousins 23. Had Cousins been the sole starter and these projections remained consistent, the Redskins o-line would have been tied with Cincinnati at 3rd. The Cousins outlier gives strong evidence that the quarterback is responsible for a significant portion of the sacks. This does not count other pressures but Football Outsiders does have a stat that measures how much a quarterback was pressured and how he preformed both with and without pressure.
          http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-pressure-plays-quarterbacks

          There’s a great comparison in there between Russell Wilson and Peyton Manning as both QBs are at the opposite ends when comes to AMOUNT of pressure faced. Here is their conclusion about amount:
          “More than anything, Manning and Wilson show how pressure rate is more of a reflection of the quarterback and the scheme than the offensive line.”

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:14 PM

          No it had nothing to do with Will Montgomery. It had to do with the amount of times we passed the ball in 2014 vs 2012 & 2013. It had to do with the fact that we barely ran the read option in 2014. In 2012 & 13 the read option slowed down the opposing defenses pass rush and turned Griffin into as much as a runner as he was a passer, and if he was a passer it was mostly out of the pistol in 2012 & 13 and off of play action with the threat of being a runner, not as a drop back passer which is what he mostly was in 2014.

          It totally had to do with the change of schemes not with the change of our personnel at center.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:04 PM

          You keep bring up an article that has ZERO to do with the Oline. If it points to anything about the Oline both QBs wereranked low wich probably points to a bad Oline.

          BTW I’m still waiting to see this 3rd best at Pass Blocking link.

          Here’s a Question Bang : How many Sacks in 2013 do you think was on RG3? it’s virtually the same Oline except 1 player.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:41 PM

          If you watched the 2014 season, it was obvious to see that Cousins was barely touched in the 6 games he played in. As bang pointed out his sack rate % was 3.6% for those games. McCoy was 11% & Griffin was 13%.

          The only difference in those games – beyond Compton starring at RT – and the games that McCoy & Griffin started the final 9 games of the year was the QBs who were playing. With virtually the same OL in the first half of the year and the second half of the year – except for the switch from Polumbus to Compton and the game and a 1/2 that Trent missed when Griffin played his worst games of the seasons vs San Fran & Tampa Bay – McCoy & Griffin got sacked 3x more than Kirk Cousins.

          Obviously with that being the case, it clearly point to the QBs having some skin in the game in terms of sacks.

          Also, in 2013 the Redksins ran a different scheme than in 2014. In 2013, Griffin was still primarily playing out of the shot gun or pistol formation and the Shanahans used a lot of read option action. This meant Griffin was a threat of a runner and passer and Morris was always a threat as well off of the read option.

          In 2014 the Redksins barely ran it and Griffin was primarily a drop back passer – something he had never been as a quarterback ever – so there was less play action, less read option, less threat of a run and so not as much to slow down the pass rush of the defense and Griffin wasn’t comfortable in the offense and wasn’t making quick enough decisions specifically on 3 step & 5 step drops. On top of that his pocket presence was horrible and his footwork and drops were horrible as he often took not enough steps on his 3, 5 or 7 step drops and he hopped around in the pocket and had a lousy base to throw from.

          Do say that Griffin didn’t attribute to a majority of his 33 sacks in 2014 is just seriously ludicrous.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:36 PM

          So quarterback pressure has nothing to do with o-line? So if they put o-line in the heading then it’s about the o-line? Look, I can’t talk crazy with you. You say the quarterback is dependent on the o-line. Sure, I agree. But the o-line is also dependent on the quarterback. We had three DIFFERENT results with the same o-line with three different quarterbacks. So what is the prime variable. The quarterback. If the results were similar – like Griffin and McCoy, you could conclude it was the o-line. However, with Cousins the results are so dis-similar and the sample size is significant, you can’t write it off as an anomaly. If you took Cousins rate [total pass plays (pass attempts + sacks)/(sacks)={3.6%} and project it for the teams total pass plays (all QBs) {607}*{3.6%} you get 23 sacks for the season which would place the Redskins 3rd in the league using the stat you used (total sacks).

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:01 PM

          @Tim about 2013. Using the same formula.

          Griffin was sacked 38 times and had another 456 pass attempts for a total of 494 pass plays yielding a rate of 7.7%. Projecting that rate over the games Griffin was ‘protected’ from would come to 51 total sacks. That’s up eight from the actual 43. Cousins was sacked just 5 times and had another 160 pass attempts for a total of 165 pass plays yielding a rate of 3.0%. Then projected over the season that would result in only 20 sacks tying Denver for 1st in the league.

        • Skulb - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:05 PM

          @Banngkokben

          Listen man, you keep repeating this but it`s just not true. As I have repeatedly told you the Redskins pocket collapse time (Which is what you have to measure the line by. Moving in the pocket is the job of the QBs, not the line) in 2014 was at the NFL average almost exactly (2,67 seconds vs the average at 2,71 seconds). That means there were 12 teams in the NFL with a worse offensive line. The pressure came from two things: the most problematic was missed blocks up the wazoo, which was the fault of the running backs, tight ends, the fullback and WRs, and the second was slow QB distribution. If you keep the ball longer than 2,5 seconds you must either run it and be evasive or you get sacked. With one notable exception vs Minnesota Griffin was not evasive in 2014. And this is just a mathematical certainty because that`s how much time an average NFL pocket buys you. Griffins average time to pass on passing plays in 2014 was 2,97 seconds; well above the average NFL pocket duration. The sacks he took every time this happened are his fault. The sacks he took when the pressure came faster than that because of missed blocks are not his fault. But almost none of the sacks are the fault of the offensive line.
          I don`t know if you have tapes of last year`s games (Not sure why a Redskins fan would want to but hey, people are weird!) you should take the time to measure some of this stuff for yourself. Count to three on each snap and you`ll notice that Griffin still has the ball while Cousins and McCoy do not. And that was Griffin`s problem last year: he was nearly half a second too slow. It would have been one thing to keep it longer on a designed play if he knew what to do with the ball. But often he looked as if he had no idea. And that is very bad QB play. And yes some of that is the fault of the coaches quite obviously. But it is also the fault of Griffin for not taking these basic facts of life as an NFL QB seriously enough. He was sure fast enough on the draw in 2012 and only kept the ball on trick plays or when he was going to run it. And they planned for him to run the ball too, so it wasn`t the seat-of-your-pants activity it seems to be last season.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:11 PM

          So in conclusion both quarterbacks were affected by the change of coaching, system, play calling, and variables among the o-line when it came to overall performance and sacks. Cousins’ sack rate declined .0.6% while Griffin’s declined 5.5%. So why was Griffin so much more affected? Was it the o-line or was it the other variables. And what is the solution going FORWARD? Did Griffin learn enough about the new system from the 2014 campaign to be effective in 2015 or is returning to a similar system to 2012 (and 2013) the only solution for Griffin?

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:52 PM

          Still Waiting for the Link Bang. Also you still didn’t say how many sacks in 2013 were RG3’s fault. Its a simple Question out of the 38 or 39 how many were RG3’s Fault? Half? 15? 7?How Many????

          And obviously someone already answered your ridiculous NBA scenario.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 4:13 PM

          It’s math using your stats. If you need a link. I’ll create one by the weekend. Right above you last comment is the same math for 2013. Cousins sack rate is virtually the same with both lines. Griffins significantly worse. Sure it’s the line.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 4:28 PM

          Mathematics! What a novel concept! Lol

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 4:32 PM

          Here’s an actual link:

          http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/02/rg3-took-sacks-last-season-at-a-historic-rate/

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:11 PM

          @Tim

          Here’s how all the team’s stack up in sack rate:

          https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

          With Cousin’s sack rate, the redskins would have been 3rd.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 8:30 PM

          Bang I asked you How many were the QBs Fault and How many were the Olines Fault in 2013. Not the total amount, not total amount projected over 16 games, Not QB dack percentage rate. I ASKED HOW MANY WERE RG3s Fault for holding the ball or whatever and HOW MANY WAS THE Olines Fault in 2013 not totals. Plain and Simple

        • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 5:31 AM

          That’s an impossible % to come up with without watching every one of our QBs snaps over the entire season.

          Again, all I can tell you is that Doc Walker and Chris Cooley watch all the film and snaps along with Brian Mitchell and Trevor Matich and if you listen to them, Griffin is more at fault on “some” of his sacks than Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins was barely ever sacked so that tells you something right there.

          Cousins’ problem was he would throw bass passes, make bad decisions with the football and ultimately throw game changing ints instead of taking a sack or throwing the ball away and after he did, he’d go over on the side lines and stick his head In between his legs like a child and cry about it.

        • Skulb - Jul 9, 2015 at 1:45 AM

          But it`s connected to what I just wrote: a QB who hangs onto the ball too long will get sacks instead of interceptions. Say what you want about Kirk but he does`t waste any time getting rid of the ball. And again, if the pocket protects you for 2,7 seconds you`d better have a some sort of a plan if you`re gonna keep the ball for longer than that. Last season I failed to see much in way of plans whenever Robert held the ball too long. He looked lost, confused, maybe even scared. He wouldn`t be the first person to be scared on an NFL field I`m sure.
          But then Griffin has always been obsessed with avoiding interceptions, and personally I think that`s the main reason why he takes sacks rather than risk giving the ball away. And it makes sense too I guess; a punt is better than a turnover. It`s just that a crippled franchise QB is worse than a turnover. He seems to have missed that. I say he just wings it next season and takes the TOs he gets from that. Count to three on passing plays and if you still have the ball you need to practice more. At least that`s what I`d tell him if I was a coach in Washington.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 9, 2015 at 7:35 AM

          You 3 keep saying RG3 was responsible for Half of the sacks last year so I’m asking was he responsible for Half in 2013? How many were his fault in 2013?

        • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 10:35 AM

          Obviously it’s a guestimation… Lol

  2. kenlinkins - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:37 AM

    (Rich; IYO when will Redskins fans get a definitive answer on the RG3 deal? I understand the guess work involved as no one can say for sure who the Redskins would have drafted with all the picks that were traded away (IMO you can not use the guys that were picked as odds are the Redskins would not have pick the same guys). So , what would be a fair way to judge the deal? Do you just say one team did better on the deal, do you only look at RG3 stats and say he was or wasn’t worth it, Do you take a avg. of the guys who could have been drafted by the Redskins vs. RG3, Do you just watch Ryan Tannehill vs RG3. How and when can we know for sure or is this going to one of those debated moves with no real answer, how will other NFL (writers, media types, GM’s, coachs’, scouts) types measure the deal?

    • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:45 AM

      Playoff appearances Griffin 1, Tanehill 0 and Tanehill has had a better defense and special teams to support him since they were drafted.

      • kenlinkins - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:48 AM

        That’s one way to measure it, anyone have any others?

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:12 AM

          If you go by stats & reliability, Tanehill has been better, but I’m never going to be convinced that if Tanehill was the Redskins qb since 2012 that the Redskins would have ever made it to the playoffs.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:45 PM

          In my mind it is the only way to measure it. But it is also Griffin vs. the Rams not vs. Tannehill.

      • nathansworldorder - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:47 AM

        One thing tannehill doesn’t have is a bruising RB like Alfred Morris. Griffin has alway had that to fall back on.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 7:02 AM

          While true, again, Tanehill had had an above average to good defense every season and not had to overcome some of the worst special teams play in nfl history over the past two seasons.

          Anyone who thinks Tanehill is anything better than Nick Foles right now is kidding themselves.

          I’m not even convinced that if Kirk Cousins was on the Dolphins instead of the Redskins that Kirk wouldn’t have put up better stats than Tanehill, and o can guarantee that of Cousins had started all 16 games last season he would have thrown for more yards and had the same amount of tds as Tanehill.

          I still think Tanehill was over drafted in the 2012 draft, I wouldn’t exactly be totally excited if he was the Redskins qb instead of Griffin.

        • nathansworldorder - Jul 8, 2015 at 7:13 AM

          That’s true. But AFC is a tough conference. And anyone who has to play Brady and the Pats twice a year is going to have a hard time getting to the post season to begin with.lol

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:01 PM

          There are WAY too many variables. If the ‘skins don’t trade the picks, everything changes. The way the ‘skins approach FA changes, the draft changes – everyone picked after Griffin in 2012 is likely on another team. We don’t likely use our 2nd pick (a 3rd rounder) on Josh LeRibeus. Maybe the ‘skins use the 2nd rounder on a running back and don’t draft Morris. As much as I like to say we should’ve drafted JJ Watt and not trade back in 2011 ending up with Ryan Kerrigan, whose to say Watt develops the same way here. The same can be said about Tannehill.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:06 PM

          As for the AFC, the 6th spot – the final wild card has been easy pickin’s for any good team for years. You have Brady, Manning, Roethisberger, Luck, and Flacco basically being guaranteed four or five of the spots. Cincinnati has been able to claim the other spot but that final spot is up for grabs.

    • Skulb - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:23 AM

      The answer to that will probably come this season. Griffin absolutely needs to stay healthy this year and he must improve his play and win games. If he doesn`t he has to be considered a bit of a bust given what the Redskins spent on him. One WC PO game for all that and then all misery and humiliation afterwards? I`m not sold, I`ll tell you that.

      • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:12 PM

        One year wonder, sure. But let’s get the facts straight. Rookie of the Year. Division champion. MVP candidate. Severe injury. Now you can add the misery and humiliation, if you must.

        • Skulb - Jul 8, 2015 at 1:48 PM

          Oh certainly. But there`s a very big but (Stop that!) there to me: Why has Griffin been trying to play for two seasons, ruining his shiny stats, if he has indeed been too injured to play? I`ve never quite been able to figure that out. Wouldn`t it have been better to prep Cousins as the starter at least in 2013 to give him the reps and experience and a steady job and Griffin the time he quite obviously needed to get his health and game back?
          And if he was fit to play then surely he must be judged on the same level as any other QB, right? Seems to me he has been trying to have it both ways: Yes I`m fit to play and if I do badly I`ll blame injuries.
          To me he is right now a slightly faster Tim Tebow with a Michael Jackson glove. Both can get back on track but are in a bit of a hurry.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:02 PM

          I doubt Griffin would have it both ways – his supporters? Sure. I do agree that Griffin could’ve Derrick Rose-d it by waiting until he was 100% but most American athletes are too competitive to see the difference between 100% and whatever they’ve come back to.

        • Skulb - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:11 PM

          Don`t get me wrong: I do understand his problem. I would want to get back on the field too if I were him. I mean you`re a football player; what use are you if you`re not playing football, right?
          But it was a very poor coaching decision to let him on the field after the original hit on his knee vs Baltimore. The additional games he played in 2012 made his injury worse and the games he played in 2013 turned out to be pointless and Griffin can`t have learned much of anything from them. Same thing last year really. Griffin does not need to learn how to play. He already knows that and proved it in spades three years ago. What he needs is to be healthy and not play until playing has some chance of improving his shaken confidence.
          Had he been smart and skipped the end of his rookie year he might have been able to play at 100% in 2013. And if he had been smart and spent 2013 rehabbing he might have been able to play at full speed last year. It`s just been bad decision piled on bad decision for so long now I`m not sure he`ll ever be able to get back from it.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 2:19 PM

          I agree about the coaching decision and playing injured. I’d even throw 2014 in that equation as well. Why come back against Minnesota? Most take a whole year from that injury. However, I don’t think he has had enough time playing QB as an NFLer. The read-option although still effective cannot be one that sustains a quarterback like Griffin when doesn’t avoid contact.

  3. sidepull - Jul 8, 2015 at 7:03 AM

    Redskins make any QB look like Brady. That’s been a problem. Other QBs come here and lit that Hazmat D up.
    That’s what has got to change this year. Berry better have his troops in shape to pressure opposing QB’s cuz as far as they Skins have been concerned they might as well all be Brady

    • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 9:05 AM

      Haz’s main problem was he didn’t have the talent in the secondary to work with and the top paid defensive linemen & orakpo keep getting injured.

      Barry has a lot more talent to work with this year on the Redskins defense than Haz ever had so, if our defense is healthy and still doesn’t improve that won’t look good for Barry or Gruden…

      • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Jul 8, 2015 at 10:18 AM

        That’s true, abanig, to a point. A good coach gets the most of what he has.

        Haz, like some others, comes in and says this is my system, now let me pound square pegs into round holes and hope the front office is magical and makes it all work out eventually.

        Front office wasn’t magical, and the square pegs didn’t fit that well.
        ~

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 11:11 AM

          Nah. Shanahan did square peg into round hole. Shanahan came in and said the redskins were switching to a 3-4 defense after they had been running a 4-3 defense and at a high level for an entire decade.

          And as much as I despise Albert Haynesworth, Shanahan alienated Albert day 1 and we honestly should have traded Albert to Philly or back to Tenn – if it was truly an option – in 2010 and recouped a mid round draft pick out of the fat bastard.

          Shanahan wanted to put his foot down though on the entire football operations of the redskins in 2010 and did so day 1 by switching the defensive scheme, alienating Albert and not giving Haz the players he needed to run the 3-4 scheme – especially in the secondary – at a high level.

          It’s quite a coincidence that one of the first things McCloughan did was upgrade the DL and secondary – two things that Shanahan had failed to upgrade properly in his time running the Redskins football operations.

        • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 8, 2015 at 3:16 PM

          I understand what you are saying about Shanahan abanig but the 3-4 is the defense that best fits the style of offensive schemes being played today. If it wasn’t then we’d be moving back to a standar 4-3 by now.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 4:23 PM

          I don’t agree, it’s more based on what your personnel is.

          In 2010 the redskins personnel fit the 4-3 better and even after signing Cofield and drafting Kerrigan and Jenkins, you could still make the case that these players fit the 4-3 defense better than the 3-4.

          We had to get rid of a double digit sack guy in Andre Carter because we switched to the 3-4. Haynesworth may have been a better soldier had we stayed in the 4-3 and definitely would have been more productive.

          The top pass rushing teams primarily still have 4 down linemen with the exception of a few teams and it helps to have 7 defenders on the field at once who are better than average in coverage. When you have 4-3 linebackers, you generally have better coverage.

        • ET - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:39 PM

          Shanahan alienated Albert day 1 and we honestly should have traded Albert to Philly or back to Tenn – if it was truly an option – in 2010 and recouped a mid round draft pick out of the fat bastard.

          Amen, Amen!

      • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:16 PM

        Orakpo remains more talented than what this defense has now. (Not better; more talented.) Or if we’re mincing words. Orakpo in 2011 was way more talented than anything on this defense as it is right now.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:24 PM

          I didn’t say Rak, Bowen or Cofield weren’t talented. I said they kept getting injured, and you can throw Carriker in their also.

          The best ability is availability and the Redskins front 7 didn’t have 4 of their best 7 defenders available to them for parts or all of the 2012-2014 seasons.

          Not really Haz’s fault and its impossible to replace all that talent w/ back ups especially when the guy running your drafts doesn’t draft any young DL in the first 3 rounds of the draft nor a safety in the first 3 rounds.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:32 PM

          I totally missed that. I’d like to believe this secondary is more talented than previous secondaries – so much so that it surpasses the diminished pass rush talent (my perception; scheme and more options could help this.)

      • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM

        Being that I’m the only card carrying Shanahater that I know (I made it myself), I wanted to respond to your trade scenario:

        “Shanahan alienated Albert day 1 and we honestly should have traded Albert to Philly or back to Tenn – if it was truly an option – in 2010 and recouped a mid round draft pick out of the fat bastard.”

        We did a year later to NE. From pro-football reference: July 29, 2011: Traded by Redskins to Patriots for 2013 5th round pick (162nd overall, Brandon Jenkins).

        Maybe we could’ve got a better deal in your scenario but that was one thing that I admired from Shanny, he seemed to get at least something from previous mistakes.

        • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 6:13 PM

          I hate Shanatan more than you, I never was totally on board with the hire given how he destroyed the Jake Plummer team and how he treated Jake who almost took Shanny to his 3rd super bowl the year before and the defenses he constructed and stupid trades he did while having control of all football operations in denv were horrible.

          Lastly, I can’t remember one good draft he had while having control of football operations in denver.

        • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 7:16 PM

          Maybe you do. I certainly don’t want to ‘win’ a hating contest. Agreed that he was never the right hire here. He certainly is vindictive and that helped him get something for nothing when it came to Donovon McNabb, Jason Campbell, and Fat Albert. But c’mon. A coach who wants to take the seasons remaining on his contract off so the team that fires him is on the hook for the whole salary? That to me says he’d rather get back at his old boss than prove that he’s the HOF coach he thinks he is. It also shows the other 30 owners what to expect if things go south. Good luck finding another taker.

    • Skulb - Jul 9, 2015 at 2:09 AM

      That`s true. One thing that confuses me a bit though is that the defense, o-line, secondary and special needs all played very well in 2012, with both Haslett and the much maligned lines in place. I mean Chester & company were actually playing in 2012. So how were they able to perform so well then and allegedly become so terrible the next year? To me it largely goes back to the lame QB performances we`ve been suffering with since 2012.
      I just watched the 2012 Ravens game over again and it was fascinating to listen to what the commentators were saying about the team and also about Griffin. “He makes everyone around him better” etc and “a very good running football team”. They even praised the offensive line (Chester, Polumbus, Lichtensteiger, Montgomery and Williams) which is more or less the same O-line people have spent the last two seasons blaming for Griffin`s problems and why the team had to draft Scherff in the first round.
      Anyway, it`s fairly obvious that Griffin hasn`t been making people around him better since he got injured. If anything he has made everyone around him worse. The only thing that really changed from 2012 to 2013 was Griffin`s injury and the apparent mental problems he seems to have developed during the 2013 offseason, so how else can this be explained? The only other thing I can think of that really was Fletcher`s retirement and Shanaman`s departure last year. But then the bad play in 2013 was allegedly their fault anyway so why should them leaving be a problem in 2014?

      The apologetics are almost comical I think. The basic reality here is that you can not play QB the way the Redskins QBs played last year and expect to win a single game. I mean just look at their stats for crying out loud! They were all worse than Geno Smith. Fix that and the rest of the team might have a chance to improve as well.

      • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM

        True story, but everyone needs to play better. A lot of problems we had the last two seasons can be attributed to injuries on defense also. That affected special teams coverage as well.

        • Skulb - Jul 9, 2015 at 7:56 AM

          Yes that`s true. But it`s also true that a QB very easily makes everyone around them look good or bad simply because they`re directly involved in every play. If the QB fails repeatedly at something simple, like throwing a 20 yard pass to an open receiver, it spreads distrust in the offense. And the more it happens the more distrust. The receivers start to feel as if they`re never getting the ball anyway so why bother making an effort on the routes. And the QB loses trust in himself and his own decision making. And then we blame each other and the coach, the media and knee injuries and have ourselves a 3-13 season. You just have to do the basic QB stuff right, whether it`s from a pistol or not. Nothing fancy, just some footwork and some passing. And if Griffin isn`t able to do that he needs to step off the field until he is. Again if he had actually just tried to run the plays that were called and not been able to I`d agree with you. But he didn`t even do that most of the time last year.
          I like to compare Griffin to Randall Cunningham who face similar challenges in adapting to the NFL and was fairly successful at it in the late 1980s before he sort of disappeared onto various benches. Sadly that`s where Griffin might be headed as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Cunningham

  4. gonavybeatarmy - Jul 8, 2015 at 9:30 AM

    I agree that the top four QBs are all very good. But Tannehill is just a very mediocre QB. And, yes, the Skins probably would have still been better served drafting Tannehill and retaining the picks they traded for the right to draft Griffin.

  5. timwillhidetimwillhide - Jul 8, 2015 at 10:53 AM

    I think if Bradford is Healthy he will give us more problems in that system than Tannehill.

    • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:19 PM

      Is it the system or the Quarterback? We face Nick Foles this year. He has been good in two different systems against us. Why not a third?

      Nonetheless, I agree that Chip Kelly’s offense no matter who is quarterbacking is dangerous.

  6. goback2rfk - Jul 8, 2015 at 11:43 AM

    How does Cam Newton not make the number 5 spot. Rather face Tannehill than Cam.

    • abanig - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:04 PM

      Read the reasoning…

      It’s pretty clear that Rich in brining up the 2012 draft and if the Redskins hadn’t traded up to get Griffin and instead stayed at 6 and took Tanehill.

      Getting Cam Newton was never an option because just like in 2011, the Redksins and Shanahan couldn’t see the forest for the trees and won too many games to have the top pick in the 2011 & 2012 draft so they missed out on Cam Newton & Andrew Luck.

      • goback2rfk - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:58 PM

        I thought the title says the top 5 QB’s the redskins will face this year. I sometimes dont read the hole thing

  7. colmac69 - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:27 PM

    Im going to buck the trend and say tannenhill is going to get better

    He has improved every yr despite miami offense not being the best in league…he would have bn gd fit for redskins imo……cousins is very similar player talent wise and if cousins had bn starter from day one would b on similar upward trend as tannehill

    However we have to hope rgiii can show improvement and become passer we want to see and lead team forward….

    As for other qbs on that list brady still top player and romo still decent….ryan should flourish in kyle shanahan offense (if they can fix their o-line that offense could b scary)…..brees is past his best and on downward curve…he can still put yards up but he makes lots mistakes that he just didnt do a few yrs ago….

    However as recent times have shown our defense and lack of pass rush can allow mediocre qbs look like allpros

    • bangkokben - Jul 8, 2015 at 12:41 PM

      Our defense is completely different from last year. It will have 5-7 different opening day starters along with new coaching and scheme. Can the results be the same? Of course, but assuming they will be is like assuming the latest Terminator movie will be the same as the last one.

      I do think that Kyle Shanahan is a good OC but I’m not bullish on the Falcons offense yet. Matt Ryan and those talented receivers have posted back-to-back double digit loss seasons – in a crummy division.

      • redskinsnameisheretostay - Jul 8, 2015 at 3:10 PM

        “…but assuming they will be is like assuming the latest Terminator movie will be the same as the last one.”

        Due to lack of originality in Hollywood nowadays I don’t think the movie being virtually the same is implausible. Sure it could be prettied up a bit with CGI but… oh wait we are discussing football here, never mind!

  8. John Balascio - Jul 8, 2015 at 8:43 PM

    To all of you who want to find out who is the Redskins better QB. Stats can tell you a lot about who’s percentages were better . What it does not tell you what team did the QB. play against. How the defense that they played against ranked. That only one of our QBs is a running threat in which brings a heavy pass rush. Griffin had more sacks because of 3 things 1 running threat 2 crappy right side on the O line 3 wrong offense for Griffin. He is not ready to be a pocket passer. Will he ever be only time will tell. He needs plays developed just for him until he learns. And when you check all of the and I mean all . #1 Griffin #2 cousins #15 Mccoy.

    • hk2000 - Jul 9, 2015 at 12:16 AM

      Exactly!!! No one sees the whole picture, non of the posters on this article sees it. Either they’re fed up with Griffin and want to pile it on, or infatuated with his 1st season magical performance and not willing to accept any alternative or explanation for said performance. What everyone is forgetting or just ignoring, is that the coaching and play calling are THE MOST IMPORTANT factors in the evaluation of our QB play. K. Shanahan to me is a genius and we lost him b/c of the father-son situation that made it impossible to keep him . And before you say anything about 2013, remember RG3 numbers were not that bad when you factor in the historically bad defense and special teams. We attempted to ‘fix’ Griffin by getting a QB ‘guru’, who before the season even started was talking about winning games 13-10- remember him saying that? This genius thought he has a defense who will keep tams from scoring more than 10 points!!!!!!!!!!! This genius knew he did not have the personnel to run his so called offense, so instead of devising ways to adapt that offense or come up with better schemes, he stuck with it and proceeded to blame the players for his ineptitude. The only reason K. Cousins looked better is because he threw interceptions instead of taking sacks!! of course if you’re reckless, you’d have a quick release and not hold the ball too long, but what’s the use if it is thrown to the other team? IT IS ALL ON THE COACH.

      • Skulb - Jul 9, 2015 at 2:25 AM

        I`m sorry but just no. There were at least 5 snaps last season when Griffin had multiple open receivers and all he could see was the sideline. The play was fine but he didn`t even try to execute it. Then on the next play everyone just resigned themselves to handing it to Morris, or maybe throwing a short screen. And because Washington didn`t have a passing game Morris just got stuffed over and over again.
        It was obvious to me that Griffin was completely unable to perform even simple passing plays in 2014. It was also obvious to all the teams he played last season. It`s not about him “not being ready to be a pocket passer”. He was a gosh dang pocket passer just fine in 2012 already and regularly managed to use the pocket extremely well then. He knew when to scramble and he was able to toss off the ball pretty well under pressure. He took few sacks and rarely missed passes. Just as soon as someone was in space he would notice it and pass the ball. Just because he ran the option well in 2012 doesn`t mean that was all he did. I mean have you people forgotten the actual games we`re supposed to be basing these discussions on or something? It`s like there`s an imaginary RGIII in your heads you`re talking about and reality just seems to get in the way of it.
        I`ll agree that changing coaches wasn`t the most helpful thing in the middle of all this but there has to be some minimal criterium for QBs as well. I can go look at a random high school football game on Youtube right now and find at least one QB better able to keep his head up and get rid of the ball than Griffin vs Tampa. I might even be hard pressed to find someone in a high school football video who would be worse at it because that would actually be difficult. Fumbling all the snaps maybe. Either way, when you`re as bad as Griffin managed to be last year you can`t just blame the coach.
        First execute the plays as if you`ve been on a football field before and then we can criticize the coach for bad play calling.

        • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM

          2012 was a different offense, he primarily threw from the pocket after a read option play action fake and primarily threw the dig route to Pierrec Garçon all game long at it was wide open because the linebackers had been sucked in to stop the run action. The threat of Griffin running the ball or handing off to a running back who was averaging 5 yards a carry in 2012 made the Redskins passing game efficient that year.

          In 2013 the passing game was less efficient because Griffin was coming off his knee injury and was less of a threat as a runner. That affected the running attack from Morris, and it affected the passing game.

          Still, in 2013 it is true that Griffin was average throwing from the pocket but keep in mind that most of his success still came in the pistol where he’d take a snap, execute the read option play action fake and take a step or two back and throw a pass or run.

          Coach Gruden wonders where Griffin gets the one step or two step drop instead of a 3 step drop, well you have to look no further than what he was taught in college and his first two years in the nfl by Kyle & Mike Shanahan as they ran the pistol/zone read option offense and Griffin general only had to take a one or two step drop.

          There’s a reason why Griffin is night and day a better passer of of play action or out of the shotgun or pistol offense and that’s because it’s what he’s done his entire career as a qb and it freezes the defense, slows down the pass rush and makes the linebackers bite on the play action fake when they call play action.

          If Gruden wants Griffin to be successful and if Gruden wants to keep his job, he needs to call more pistol formation plays, more shot gun plays, more play action, more bootlegs and more one side of the field reads for Griffin just like the Super Bowl champion Russell Wilson primary gets to run, cam newton primarily gets to run and Kapernick gets to run throughout their season.

      • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 6:59 AM

        There’s a lot of truth to that statement, but it can’t be “All” on the coach. Coaches don’t play. The truth is Griffin couldn’t execute the plays that were called by the coaches as well as Kirk & Colt last year because Griffin isn’t developed as a pocket passer yet and there’s no debating that.

        • bangkokben - Jul 9, 2015 at 12:57 PM

          Although, I agree. This board is clear evidence to the contrary.

    • abanig - Jul 9, 2015 at 6:45 AM

      I don’t 100% agree with that. Griffin played some tough defenses like San Fran and the Vikings but Cousins played the toughest when he played Arizona & Seattle. Colt faced the 3rd toughest when he faced the 100% healthy Dline of the St Louis Rams who have 4 top 15 picks on their DL.

      The offense was not catored to Griffin’s strengths, that’s for sure but keep in mind that all of the QBs has the same exact offensive lineup except for the game and a half that Trent Williams missed, when LeRibeus played for Lavauo some when he was battling a knee injury the first month of the season or when Compton took over for Polumbus.

      I really think the reason Griffin played so bad against SF & TB was because of Trent’s injuries and we played Moses at LT.

      That’s something not many people bring up enough about those two games!

      That being said I’ll say it again; Griffin holds onto the ball too long, he doesn’t take his drops correctly, he has trouble seeing the entire field, when he scrambles he doesn’t keep his eyes downfield and he has horrible pocket presence.

      I hear he’s improving in these areas, but we won’t be sure if he’s really improved at them until the real bullets start fighting in Sept.

  9. Asnakes - Jul 13, 2015 at 3:38 AM

    Eli > tannehill

    • abanig - Jul 13, 2015 at 7:24 AM

      Definitely, and Eli’s wrs are better also. I don’t really get the love for Tanehill, he’s just slightly above average.

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