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The Redskins have spent a ton of draft resources on quarterbacks

Apr 1, 2015, 11:35 AM EDT

RG3-sacked-vs-49ers

If one of the reasons you don’t want the Redskins to draft Marcus Mariota if he’s there when they are on the clock is that they keep on spending their limited resources on quarterbacks, well, you may be onto something.

The outstanding website Football Perspective took a look and said that only four teams have expended more draft value chart points (by their calculation, using the Approximate Value metric) on quarterbacks. The Lions have spent the most, 78.4 draft value points, followed by the Jaguars, Raiders, Falcons, and Redskins, who have spent 69.4 draft value points on quarterbacks since 2000. In return, Washington has obtained Todd Husak, Sage Rosenfels, Patrick Ramsey, Gibran Hamdan, Jason Campbell, Jordan Palmer, Colt Brennan, Kirk Cousins, and Robert Griffin III.

But this method of calculating substantially understates how much Washington has spent on quarterbacks. It doesn’t count trades and the Redskins have racked up quite a bill in draft pick trades for quarterbacks.

The FP study, for example, accounts only for the No. 2 overall pick in the draft (30.2 value points) the Redskins used for Griffin. But in reality, Griffin cost four picks. Washington spent the 6th and 39th picks in 2012, the 22nd pick in 2013, and the 2nd pick in 2014 for the one pick to take Griffin. Looking at Football Perspective’s chart, that is a total of 79.6 draft value points alone to get Griffin, more than the Lions have spent for their five QB’s.

As they say, wait, there’s more. Jason Campbell was selected with the 25th pick in 2005. To get that pick, the Redskins traded their third-round pick that year (76th) and their first (22nd) and fourth (119th) in 2006. So instead of costing 13.9 draft value points (the value of the 25th pick), he actually cost them 26.1.

To complete the picture here we need to look at one more trade, the one that brought Donovan McNabb to Washington. He came to the Redskins in exchange for the 37th and 104th picks in the 2010 draft. Those picks total 16.6 value points.

So to recalculate what the Redskins have spent, start with the 69.4 points FP originally figured out, subtract out the points originally added in for Griffin and Campbell, add in the real costs of drafting those two quarterbacks and add in the cost of the McNabb trade. It comes to 147.6 points. That’s about equal to four No. 1 overall picks plus a mid-second rounder.

(Update: I forgot in include the 2004 3rd-round pick that was dealt to the Jaguars for Mark Brunell. Add 7.4 points for the 72nd overall pick.)

Without researching and recalculating what quarterback related trades the other 31 teams have made, we can’t be certain that the Redskins have spent more on quarterbacks than any other team. But it seems very safe to say that that they have expended a lot and have received very little in return.

  1. ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Apr 1, 2015 at 12:18 PM

    Another way to state this would be, “The Redskins have been a terribly-run franchise* since Dan Snyder bought them.”

    * Not counting the money, of course. They’ve been a goldmine for Danny in spite of the futility.
    ~

    • Rich Tandler - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:01 PM

      While that’s undeniably true, this pattern started before Snyder. The calculations here to not include the 1999 Brad Johnson trade, which was a 1, 2, and 3 for a year and a half of Johnson. That was while ownership of the team was still up in the air. It also doesn’t count the No. 4 overall for Heath Shuler.

      > > >

      • bowlregard - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:49 PM

        And we let Rich Gannon and Trent Green get away.

      • ceetown22 - Apr 1, 2015 at 4:55 PM

        well it says from 2000 forward so that’s why it wasn’t included.

        • ceetown22 - Apr 1, 2015 at 4:56 PM

          I’m the dummy. I didn’t read the previous comments… my badd

  2. oaklandred - Apr 1, 2015 at 12:49 PM

    Thanks Rich, that puts the situation in stark relief. Despite the record of decision making that has produced this situation, it seems like there’s hope now. Snyder is putting in place the right people, and hopefully allow them to do their jobs, keeping to the traditional owner role (fingers crosssed) exemplified by Kraft and not a Jerry Jones.

    That said, we can’t let the past determine what we do. We gave up a lot for Griffin? That’s in the past. Show me what you can do now, like McCloughan says. We don’t worry about how you got here or give anyone special hold on the position.

    I’m with Shanahan in believing Kirk Cousins could be outstanding if given a chance to develop. Hopefully he will get that chance with us rather than becoming a star with another team. But if the team evaluates Mariota as worthy of the 5th pick, we can’t let the past of mistakes make us gun shy. We can’t as Gruden says be afraid to hit the reset button at the QB position.

    • brucefan1 - Apr 1, 2015 at 3:37 PM

      I doubt that few who are involved with the Skins — team, media, or fans — would be afraid to hit the QB reset button, Red.

      I think it’s just a matter WHEN they would do that. Are they gonna try getting all the information possible and letting things play out a bit more in order to see if that’s exactly what needs to be done?

      I doubt they have made that determination yet. The only way we will know for sure that they HAVE is if they use the #5 to take a QB. Short of that, it would appear they will want to see how things go this season with who they have before they press that button.

  3. timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:00 PM

    I don’t think we can blame all of the bad QB play on the QBs either. You need to have a supporting cast for them to succeed and in one way or another some of our starting QBs haven’t had that some have flopped on their own. I don’t feel RG3 has had an Oline to support him

    This Oline is Terrible. RG3 had 530 drop backs 334 Drop Backs the pressure got to him in 2.3 secondsor less 262 Drop Backs the pressure got to him in 2 seconds or less. The most time he had before pressure got to him was 2.8 seconds and that was on 1/5 of his Drop Backs and 1/4 of those Drop backs he had to scramble because no one was open in that short amount of time. That points directly to the Oline. People keep saying RG3 was holding onto the ball. Exactly who is open in that short amount of time? A lot of these pressures were not Blitzes. Your dump off guy isn’t always gonna be open.

    • Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:52 PM

      This is what I was saying last year when I was arguing that McCoy should start because he was the fastest on the draw without giving the ball away. From the perspective you took above last year`s Patriots O-line was actually worse than the Redskins O-line by about 2/10 a second. The difference was that Brady could release accurate passes in about 1,8-2,4 seconds so that the pressure from his obviously feeble O-line never really got to him.
      By contrast Griffin needed about 2,4 to 3 seconds to release and that is obviously longer than the time his O-line was usually able to buy him. And that was why he looked so bad.
      It`s more complex than blaming either the O-line or the QB. They just have to be in sync is the thing. And the Redskins offense was rarely in sync last season. But you can fix it by either improving the line to accommodate the relatively slow QBs you have in Washington or by downgrading the QB to someone who is less flashy but faster in his process. Or I suppose you could train and train the players you have until they become faster/better able to buy time for the QB. But you have to do at least one of these things for there to be any improvement next year.

      • timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 1, 2015 at 2:48 PM

        If you notice RG3 had 2 seconds or less before pressure got to him most of the time. That is no where near enough time. And compared to the Patriots who looked like Tom Brady had all day ( I haven’t compared the #s but will soon ) the QB play is directly effected by the horrible Oline. Some of this will be improved this year with better Olinemen and another year in the system but last year was mainly on the Oline. The Coach could have helped this by covering for the Oline with better play calls. 530 Drop Backs in 7 starts are you kidding me!!!! Thats a ridicules amount

        • brucefan1 - Apr 1, 2015 at 3:41 PM

          See Tim, that’s what I told ya… some people’s minds are made up and it is gonna be difficult to change them.

          Don’t quit trying tho!

        • Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 6:58 PM

          I can see your mind is made up and that no argument will penetrate. But just please go and look at the PC and TTP stats for the NFL for last season. You can find them on the NFL`s homepage. note how the teams that have a higher PC time than TTP time all went far into the playoffs, while all the teams, The Washington Redskins included, that had a lower PC time than TTP time flopped miserably.
          Then do please go back and confirm for yourself that this has been the case in all the previous seasons I have had the patience to look into as well. Do you think that this is some form of coincidence or do you perhaps think that this is related somehow?

          I know what I think.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 2, 2015 at 2:41 AM

          You ae comparing apples to oranges. Brady has bin in the same system for over a decade and is not a scramblerso once his pocket collapse there isn’t much TTT. In contrast RG3 is in his system for the first time and is able to scramble so his TTT will be greater after the Pocket collapse because he is scrambling to avoid the sack. A better comparison would be Kapernick or even Luck. How does he compare to Bridgewater? These are by far better comparisons.

      • wvredskins - Apr 1, 2015 at 4:34 PM

        You guys can say what you want about 2 seconds blah blah blah. Yes the Oline needs improving BUT I saw way more times where Griffin was A. Holding onto the ball to long and missing wide open wide recievers and looking lost then getting sacked B. Running to soon and abanding his reads and when on the run not looking down the field to create a play, or C. Not taking the correct drop back. If the line is thinking that you are going to take a 5 step drop back and he is taking a 3 or a 7 is that the Oline’s fault?!? AGAIN Im not saying the Oline is good and yes there were some times where Griffin did not have enough time to get the ball out but IMO more times then not it was on him. Kirk Cousin got the ball out just fine and scored touch downs. He had 10 touch downs and hardley ever took sacks. Only problem is he is a gunslinger and when you play brett farve like ball there are gonna be times when you throw int. Kirk Cousins just threw to many in a short period of time. I just wish Coach would have given him another shot. IMO I think Kirk should be the starter unless Griffin shows ALOT of Improvement in the offseason. I hope he does I am his biggest fan but without his top notch Speed he is just another AVG to bottom tier back up QB. If Kirk can learn from his Mistakes last year and Keep his confidence up I think he has a ceiling higher then both. HTTR

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 1, 2015 at 9:47 PM

          RG3 had 364 more Drop Backs than Cousins. Thats 3.19x more in only 2 more games yet Cousins threw more picks. That means they RAN THE BALL MORE When you run the ball more your play action is more believeable. Which Slows Down the Rush. Thats why he had less sacks .

      • hk2000 - Apr 1, 2015 at 4:50 PM

        I don’t know what you’ve been watching, I watched many NE games and saw Brady routinely stand still in the pocket, both hands down STANDING STILL, looking, looking, looking…. with several yards of empty space all around him while waiting for a receiver to get open…ROUTINELY!!!!!!!!!!!! RG3 gets his linemen pushed into him multiple times in the same series– and that is a young QB who hasn’t played 5% of the games Brady played and yet everyone is convinced he is terrible. The head coach cannot scheme to improve his chances and is very predictable, the line coach has been awful at teaching those guys how to block and the whole offensive scheme is so restrictive.. I never saw a play where the defenders are redirected by the line in a way that gives the QB room to maneuver or improvise like Seattle’s line does, even though they’re not great, the plays confuse the defense so much, Wilson is able to maneuver and zigzag, because the line keeps shifting around making it hard to know what the QB is gonna do next. Hopefully the new line coach will be better at that,

        • ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© - Apr 1, 2015 at 5:27 PM

          Tom Brady is one of the league’s leaders in getting the ball out quickly.

          http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/01/22/time-check-tom-bradys-snap-to-release-time-was-season-low-vs-colts/
          ~

        • wvredskins - Apr 1, 2015 at 6:11 PM

          Russel Wilson zigzags around because he can feel the pressure WAY better than RG3. Some QB’s have it and some dont. Take a look at a Slow Tony Romo. He is good at escaping pressure because he can feel the def End coming from his Blind side. Russel is so good because he is good at manipulating a defense kinda like a no look pass in basketball. You either have it or dont. When Russel abandons the pocket he creates time by pump faking reversing field suddonly stopping then going whatever it takes to give the WR time to break open and his EYES are down field at all times, where as when RG breaks the pocket he is 95% of the time running full speed towards the sideline trying to break the edge of the on coming lineman and when he finds out he is not going to beat him to the edge he looks for a WR when his eyes needs to be examing the field the hole time. Just my opinion tho.

        • Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 6:53 PM

          I`m watching the official stats for pocket collapse (PC) and time to pass (TTP) in the NFL. The Pats had the lowest PC in the league while the Skins were in the middle of the pack. But Brady had the second fastest draw in the league which meant that you never noticed just how horrible his line was. Bob was somewhere in the middle of the slow half of the league`s QBs while McCoy was almost exactly in the middle, almost half a second faster than Bob.
          It is almost a mantra among Skins fans that the line is bad. But it just isn`t. It is average and many teams, almost half the league in fact, have it worse on the line. The problem is that Bob needs a good line because he`s not fast enough. The Redskins line is just not good enough for a slow QB to play behind. Seattle are interesting because Wilson was the second slowest draw in the NFL last season. Much slower than Griffin in fact. But because the Hawks line was so bone solid even that went OK: If you had placed Wilson on another team with a normal line he would have looked like Geno Smith or Robert Griffin III in an instant.
          You`re in the I hate the Oline camp and then there`s the other camp which is RGII sucks and I hate him. But both are right and wrong because you can fix the problem at either the QB position by getting a faster QB or on the line. Either works and I think the fact that the Patriots and the Seahawks both got to the SB with respectively the fastest and the slowest (Almost” QB in the league, and respectively the worst and the best line in the league.
          I really don`t understand why this is hard to understand for some folks. The TTP and PC are the most important offensive stats you have. if they do not match up you are in big trouble. And I don`t care if your QB is Joe Montana. The line MUST hold until he can pass the ball. Fast QB can work with rotten line, slow QB can not. When these numbers match up a team looks great, effortless even. And when it doesn`t it looks like the Redskins have looked the last two seasons.

        • Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM

          I was trying to say that the fact that the Pats and the Hawks went to the SB with respectively the fastest and the slowest QB and the worst and the best O-line in the NFL proves that this is what the problem was with the Redskins last season. Robert`s TTP was longer than the average PC time of the Redskins O-line. Hank McCoy`s TTP was almost exactly the same as the PC time of the O-line while Cousins was about right in the middle of Bob and Hank. And that was why I said that McCoy should play out the season after the Dallas game because he was the only one able to work somewhat comfortably behind the average Redskins O-line. Not because he was the best QB, which is clearly Griffin, but just the fastest to get rid of the ball reliably.
          Upgrade the line from average to good and Griffin might well become the best QB in the league. But there was no prospect of that happening by the Dallas game last year so McCoy was the correct choice. All Griffin was gonna get behind this line was injured. So unless the line is seriously upgraded, not quite to the levels Wilson needs but on the way there, the Redskins should just go ahead and trade Griffin for a fast pocket passing QB if they can find one. If they do not he will get injured and spend next season on the bench as well.

          Hopefully the management of the Redskins understand this. It`s not that complicated.

        • Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 9:41 PM

          OK I exaggerated the state of the Pat`s O-line a tad. It was the third worst in PC times, ahead of the Jags and the Bucs. Brady had the fastest TTP I believe, unless Rodgers was ahead of him by the end. They were very close all year on that stat. But Wilson had by some margin the slowest TTP time of any starting QB in the NFL and as a consequence I don`t think it`s much of a stretch to just up and declare the Hawks line the best in the league as well.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 2, 2015 at 2:44 AM

          You ae comparing apples to oranges. Brady has bin in the same system for over a decade and is not a scramblerso once his pocket collapse there isn’t much TTT. In contrast RG3 is in his system for the first time and is able to scramble so his TTT will be greater after the Pocket collapse because he is scrambling to avoid the sack. A better comparison would be Kapernick or even Luck. How does he compare to Bridgewater? These are by far better comparisons.

        • timwillhidetimwillhide - Apr 2, 2015 at 8:22 AM

          Probably the best comparison between like players is RG3 to Tannahill. They both have athletic abillity, close to the same age, and have both bin in multiple offenses.

        • wvredskins - Apr 2, 2015 at 6:24 PM

          RG3 had 364 more drop backs and had less touchdown passes works both ways. Cousins threw 3/4’s of his picks in two games.

  4. Penz - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:40 PM

    Hey, can’t we save the depressing stuff until at least when the regular season starts!! The off season is supposed to be all about false hopes and lofty expectations. The article pretty much sums up why the Skins have spent the majority of the last 14 seasons rooted to the bottom of the division. Things are actually starting to look like they are heading in the right direction……false hope!!!

  5. Skulb - Apr 1, 2015 at 1:41 PM

    In other news, jumping off tall buildings may lead to vertical motion.

  6. gasngo14 - Apr 1, 2015 at 2:23 PM

    Happy Birthday and R.I.P Sean Taylor

    Sean would have been 32 years old today.

  7. kenlinkins - Apr 1, 2015 at 4:18 PM

    Rich, Would it be fair to say that the Redskins problems at QB started when the CAP went into effect?

    • Rich Tandler - Apr 1, 2015 at 8:43 PM

      Well, that is true but I see no cause and effect. A QB has to be at least good, if not very good, to have much of an effect on the cap.

      Although, indirectly, it’s all mixed up. The Redskins have expended so much draft capital on QB’s that they haven’t had enough left to draft enough quality players at other positions. They’ve had to go to free agency for those players and we all know what having too high a ratio of free agents to young draft picks on their first contracts does to the cap.

      > > >

  8. hk2000 - Apr 1, 2015 at 5:04 PM

    It boils down to coaches. I don’t think the physical difference between NFL players is that great ( strength wise and power wise), so it comes down to who is taught better (as in technique and scheme). I think of it as a chess game and the team with the smartest coaches usually wins. We have had awful coaches for the past 20+ years (with the exception of Marty Shottenheimer year).

  9. wildbill1952 - Apr 1, 2015 at 5:25 PM

    Strange that when the Skins drafted Patrick Ramsey, the coaches wanted a guard at the Number 32 spot. Year after year, the management of the Skins have wasted draft pics, money and the coaches time (which is probably the most valuable commodity) in the endless pursuit to be thought of as geniuses for drafting the next Tom Brady. In the meantime, the people who could actually make the QB look better, the OL, were largely ignored until the later rounds of the draft.

    Look at the three Super Bowl winning QB’s – Theismann, Rypien and Williams. None are in the HOF, none was considered the best QB in the league at the time, and yet all won Super Bowls. Why could average QB’s win Super Bowls? Because their OL gave them all the time in the world on pass plays and gave them a running game when they got into the Red Zone. During the Snyder era, the Skins have neither pursued great OL in FA, nor have they spent first and second round picks on OL except for their two left tackles – Chris Samuels and Trent Williams. All of the other OL currently on the team were either relegated to second string or discarded by their former teams.

    The Skins got what they paid for.

    • bowlregard - Apr 2, 2015 at 9:51 AM

      I think there were years Theismann played at a HOF level.

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