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Need to Know: Cardinals NT would be a good fit for Redskins

Jan 21, 2015, 5:22 AM EDT

Dan Williams Cardinals

Here is what you need to know on this Wednesday, January 21, 99 days before the Washington Redskins go on the clock for the first round of the NFL draft.

Question of the day

We’re changing up the format of Need to Know for the offseason. Every day I’ll give an in-depth answer to a question submitted by a fan on my Twitter feed, via the Real Redskins Facebook page, or in the comments section here. On Twitter address the questions to me at @Rich_TandlerCSN with the #NTK hashtag. There will be a comment thread set up on the Facebook page and if you’re asking your question here, put “for NTK” at the start of the comment.

Today’s question is from Twitter:

I am going to go along with the premise of this question even though I don’t think that Scot McCloughan would do it. He and the Redskins are committed to building through the draft. Assuming that they are true to their word, any free agency activity this year in order to plug holes will be cheap, short-term variety. Veterans obtained in free agency will be considered short-term fixes until a draft pick is ready to play, not permanent solutions.

But if the Redskins do decide to get one pricey free agent (slim chance) and ask me for my advice (zero chance) I’d tell them to go after nose tackle Dan Williams of the Cardinals.

First, he fills a major need. I’ve been a defender of Barry Cofield at nose tackle for a long time but I think that at his age he needs to move outside and play end. Williams is 6-2, 330 and is built for the nose tackle position. And the position is tough to fill in the draft.

Also, he’s relatively young. He will be 28 before training camp starts, nearing middle age as a football player but not in the 30+ age group that McCloughan is very wary of. If you sign him to a five-year contract you can be reasonably sure he will finish it out, or at least four years of it.

Finally, he won’t break the bank. He doesn’t have huge sack numbers of the other “big play” stats that drive up salaries. Williams will get a solid payday, maybe in the $7 million per year range, perhaps more. (If it turns out to be a lot more I’ll withdraw my advice to sign him.)

There you go, Scot. My advice, take it or leave it.

Timeline

—It’s been 24 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be about 235 days until they play another one.

Days until: NFL Combine 29; NFL free agency starts 48; 2015 NFL Draft 99

If you have any questions about what’s going on at Redskins Park, hit me up in the comments. And I’m always on Twitter @Rich_TandlerCSN.

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In case you missed it

  1. Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 7:19 AM

    I would prefer Terrance Knighton, who is better both against the run and pass, but Williams would definitely be a good fit. Knighton played better football, is only 1 year older, played 100 more snaps this year, and should be able to play even more outside of the thin air in Denver. What I expect is something more along the lines of Kenrick Ellis.

    With that said, if the one big splash in FA is Dan Williams, and it’s not a crazy contract, then I’d be perfectly happy with that.

  2. sidepull - Jan 21, 2015 at 7:26 AM

    Love the idea of true NT. I have been hoping they trade back in the draft and pick up Danny Shelton unless of course NT wouldn’t be happening if Williams is at 5, which he wont be. If they go out and get a free agent I am all for the NT. We need a push into that QB pocket badly.

  3. murphsman - Jan 21, 2015 at 7:51 AM

    How about Orlando Franklin, the OL for the Broncos? He’s only 27, and he has the size Scot’s looking for.

  4. nomaan78 - Jan 21, 2015 at 7:53 AM

    What about Baker? He is about the same size as Dan Williams and was pretty darn good at NT for us.
    Sam Baker 6’2 325 lbs
    Dan Williams 6’2 327lbs

    I think we need to get better DE’s for our 3-4

    • kjp0810 - Jan 21, 2015 at 9:36 AM

      I agree. It’s clear the Skins plan to keep Chris Baker at NT and use more one-gap concepts for the 3-4 ends. I don’t think there’s enough of a difference in skill level between Williams and Baker to justify using starter money w/ our limited salary cap space on a player that would mostly rotate with Baker in our base defensive package. We have far too many other holes to fill. Like a safety and slot corner that can actually cover! Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for improving the interior line, but a more logical choice for that would be someone whose skills are penetrating the gaps rather than occupying multiple blockers.

      • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:03 PM

        Baker is bad at NT despite his size. Dan Williams is someone who can actually play the position well.

        • nomaan78 - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:31 PM

          Whats up Mean Joe. Baker came in and played the position well and Dan is not much if any better than Baker. He was someone we brought in and actually somewhat developed. Im sure Gruden and Barry will keep him and likely start him. Why waste a pick on NT at this point, When we need OLB, DE, FS, SS, CB and O-linemen? What we need is some really good DE’s to collapse the pocket Baker can handle his own.

    • rtcwon - Jan 21, 2015 at 3:25 PM

      Who cares about size/weight numbers. Did you watch the games?
      Chris Baker was bad at NT last year. He does not like to be blocked at all much less absorb two. He’s a solid starter with play making ability at DE but playing NT wastes his potential & I don’t think his personality will ever allow him to learn how to play the position decently. .

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:02 PM

      Seriously, you don’t even know Chris Baker’s first name?

  5. deepball1 - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:12 AM

    “I’ve been a defender of Barry Cofield at nose tackle for a long time but I think that at his age he needs to move outside ” That is your quote.

    [Tandler here, see reply below]

    • deepball1 - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:19 AM

      p.s. However…great suggestion for Dan Williams as a free agent Nose tackle. Although a less expensive alternative would be Terrence Cody of Baltimore who has not been able to crack the lineup behind All World Haloti Ngata. Cody IS a free agent this year and is about 345 pounds.

      • rtcwon - Jan 21, 2015 at 4:03 PM

        I didn’t watch much Ravens this year but are you sure Cody was behind Ngata at NT?
        In the past, when I’ld challenge people to name 5 better NTs than Cofield, Ngata would come up but as of 2013 he didn’t even play NT.

      • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:05 PM

        Terrence Cody is horrible AND he’s coming off a hip injury that knocked him out for most of the year. He’s got a whopping 4 starts in the last 3 years. He was the starter in 2011, failed miserably, and has been a bench warmer since then.

      • Joe Greene - Jan 23, 2015 at 4:42 PM

        Oh, and not only is Terrance Cody a bad football player, he’s about to get released by the Ravens before he hits the FA market due to animal cruelty charges. So, he’s a bad football and a despicable human being.

    • Rich Tandler - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:49 AM

      deepball, you will not come on to my blog and talk to me like that. If you don’t think I have Football 101 knowledge then go read elsewhere.

      • alextwrs - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:48 AM

        Not sure what you said Deepball but you obviously struck a nerve. Maybe you two have a past. I have to say that I feel Baker is our best DL talent and should replace Coefield who has struggled as of late. I know that Rich feels a safety in the box has replaced the daunting DT that is required of a 3-4 system. I feel the opposite of that idea as most of the 3-4 successful systems have a legit DT that can penetrate. Putting a safety in the box is a coverage liability to me. I think going after the Tereence Cody’s of the world is a great idea. Find some up and coming talent that is stuck behind legitamate starters.

  6. manilarizzo - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:51 AM

    I would make Iupati the one splash and focus on the draft to build the DL this year.

    • alextwrs - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:40 AM

      Yea I agree.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:08 PM

      I like Iupati as well. Two other options are Orlando Franklin and Clint Boling.

  7. hk2000 - Jan 21, 2015 at 9:27 AM

    Given that they’re presumably rebuilding, and will need 3-4 years before even coming close to being contenders, should they really bother with free agency at all? why not focus on draft and undrafted, or very young free agents (<26)? Do you really need to sign someone who'll be on the decline by the time this team has even a chance?

    • JRock - Jan 21, 2015 at 9:55 AM

      I tend to want to agree to this with one exception. The coaches need to show their schemes are at the very least capable of success. If they can get a guy that improves a position until we can draft the ideal player, I say do it. The last thing I want to see is The Dan firing Jay or either the OC or DC, and have to start all over. If we acquire decent talent and we don’t improve even slightly, that’s a different story. At that point Scott M. Can get his guy, who then can get his OC and DC. Honestly, I’m just exhausted with the coaching carousel around here.

    • bangkokben - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:47 AM

      The assumption that it takes 3-4 years of building from the draft to be competitive is loser thinking. No one has 3-4 years patience after 20+ years of futility. Sure they say it but at the same time want wholesale changes.

      More importantly the NFL is fluid and if your division is down or you’re schedule includes one or two down divisions you have a chance to make a worst to first leap or a wild card playoff run – common nearly every year.

      So you have your core philosophy and you have flexibility with the other tools at your disposal. This either build through the draft or sign FAs is not reality. Both are done but to what extent.

      Last year, our team traded its 1st pick to a division rival for an extra pick. If you trade draft picks you better get future draft picks as well.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:09 PM

      Most free agents under 26 are going to be restricted and cost picks to get them. The approach to FA should be guys in that 26-28 range that are entering their prime and can hold spots down while we draft their replacements.

      • rtcwon - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:28 PM

        Most intelligent thing you’ve ever posted.

        Bad teams don’t become good by throwing a bunch of rookies on the field. Building through the draft allows good teams become consistent contenders when their picks start beating out the solid starters already in place.

        FA for need, draft BPA for future.

        So the approach to FA should be guys in that 26-28 range that are entering their prime if you can find any, or backups that haven’t had a chance to start yet.

  8. red - Jan 21, 2015 at 10:19 AM

    Hey rich you answered one of my questions for NTK already so i won’t double dip lol but… I read that john gruden is a mike holmgren disciple and jay gruden is a john gruden disciple. I didnt really know much bout jay other than he is johns brother but was john gruden really his mentor? Does he do anything like john gruden?

  9. shermanp79 - Jan 21, 2015 at 10:50 AM

    They need a true NT. It’s one thing I never understood. They wanted smaller guys for QB sacks, yet year after year it never worked. I’d prefer to go younger but 28 would still have him here when we are ready to compete but will injuries start piling up? He plays a brutal position and guys get beat up. It sounds like Cofield may not be here. If he is, playing end might allow him to be more productive. They need a few guys for the DL, so I imagine some come from FA. Will ARI sign him before FA? You have “pot roast” (Den) out there too at the same age, if not a year younger.

    • Rich Tandler - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:36 AM

      As of a year or two ago, Cofield was just about average weight for starting 3-4 nose tackles. Not as big as you like but half of the 3-4 teams operated with someone the same weight or lighter.

      > > >

  10. rcjur - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:42 AM

    This team needs real help at NT. They need players that can get to the QB and they need to resolve the Safties. First off, I agee DT Williams will be a good FA pickup; the other defensive player they should add is at CB with Culliver from SF. There you go, in FA DT Williams, CB Culliver (bye, bye D. Hall) and the best OLine player you can add to the group. In draft if they stay at #5, my choice would be SS Landon Collins, if not then between DE’s Fowler Jr. and Gregory. Please get one at #5! My pick in the 2nd Round would be DT Malcom Brown. Oline can be had in 3rd Round and 4th Round, if these scouts do their homework but team needs defense.
    WIth additions DT Williams, DT Brown (Texas), CB Culliver and SS Collins added to this defense, the unit would of been upgraded. As long as there is no names still left on defense side roster that is named Bowen, Golston, Coefield, Nield, Orakpo, Porter, Biggers and T. Robinson. Get these guys in draft and FA and add players to replace the others.

    • bangkokben - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:58 AM

      Damn. What do you have undrafted FA special teamers? T. Robinson?

      Drafting a SS at number 5 is equivalent to drafting a G or RT at number 5. Landon Collins is more like Roy Williams than Ronnie Lot. Waste of a pick.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:11 PM

      Landon Collins is going to be a bust if he’s taken in the top 15. He’s not a good coverage S at all and that’s the last thing we need more of.

  11. alextwrs - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:50 AM

    So many reasons are pointing to a 4-3 switch.

  12. alextwrs - Jan 21, 2015 at 11:52 AM

    Not only do we not have the perseonnel to run the system but we have a DC coming in that nobody trusts. How can a man in that situation improve what is already wrong to begin with. Simply going on stats and facts, the defense has stunk for three years. They got on a roll for 8 games in 2012 but it wasnt the system.

    • bangkokben - Jan 21, 2015 at 12:00 PM

      This need to hold onto the 4-3 by fans is silly.

  13. alextwrs - Jan 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM

    Need to hold on? Its gone

  14. markmiller868 - Jan 21, 2015 at 1:52 PM

    Hey Rich,

    I would agree that this team could use an infusion of talent at the NT position. I would also agree that Dan Williams is a stud, prototypical NT that would help strengthen our run D. I’d be thrilled if the Skins landed Williams, but if we can only get one player this off-season he wouldn’t be my pick for a couple of reasons.

    1. He is not an every down player. Last year, Dan Williams was healthy for all 17 games the Cardinals played, yet he was only on the field for 458 of 1139 of the team’s defensive snaps, roughly 40%. This is largely due to his skill set as a run stuffer (which he is phenomenal at), but his ineffectiveness in pass rushing situations (just 15 total QB pressures on the season on 188 pass rush snaps). He is simply not on the field for enough snaps to justify the hefty salary he will likely command.

    2. We have a pretty decent NT in Chris Baker. While I will readily admit that Dan Williams is a more talented player than Baker, especially at stopping the run, Baker is a very serviceable player who is just as good, if not better than Williams, at pushing the pocket (Baker has 23 total QB pressures on 214 pass rush snaps). Add in the fact that Baker is both younger and cheaper than Williams, plus he plays a higher percentage of his team’s defensive snaps (52% for Baker). I know that the Skins could move Baker outside to DE and play him alongside of Dan Williams (much like the Ravens do with Ngata and B. Williams), but I don’t know if that is the best use of Bakers’ talents.

    3. At 28, will he be a part of the next great Redskins team? While I agree with you that 28 is not that old for a FA, it is not that young when you consider that it is hard to envision this team as a contender for at least the next 2 years. Certainly at age 30 he could very well still be a big contributor, especially if they keep him on a pitch count like the Cards do. However, I would hate for us to commit big money to a player who has likely already reached his peak and will be in decline shortly.

    4. NT is not our most pressing need. Again, we could use an upgrade at NT (every unit on this team could use an upgrade quite honestly), but cant the Skins get more bang for their buck by addressing other positions first? Finding a RT to protect our QB would go a long way to helping our whole offense. Our offensive line wasn’t as bad as public perception last year, aside from the play of our RTs which really caused issues in the passing and running game. Or a competent safety to help lead our young corners, who clearly have talent, but looked lost back there much of the time. By bringing in a quality FS, I think we can improve every position in our secondary by giving some direction/guidance to our young DBs.

    With that said, if given the opportunity to sign one free agent for the Redskins, I would take the best, young player available who will help this team now and will (hopefully) still be a productive member of this team when it is ready to contend. Here are the players that I think would fit within those objectives:

    Bryan Bulaga, RT (26) – Quality young RT, which addresses a key need for this team, and will help with the development of RG3 (or whoever may be the Redskins QB of the future)

    Orlando Franklin, RT/G (27) – Another quality young O-lineman with experience playing RT and RG. A huge, mauler-type lineman that McCloughan loves who would be a huge upgrade at RT or over Chester, who is getting up there in age. The value his versatility would bring to our o-line cannot be overstated.

    Da’Norris Searcy, SS (26) – Big, well-rounded safety, who plays the run well and can hold up in coverage. Would be surprised to see the Bills let him go, but he is unrestricted, so if he is allowed to test FA then the Skins should take a long look at him.

    Rahim Moore, FS (25) – A very young, ball-hawk of a safety who excels in pass coverage, something the Redskins desperately need to address. He is not an all-world player in the mold of Eric Weddle, but he would be a huge upgrade that would be had for a reasonable contract. Plus, the Broncos have a ton of free agents and they cant keep them all, so maybe Moore would be the easiest to pry away from his current team.

    Will Hill, FS (25) – Awesome, versatile FS would can roam the deep half of the field, but can also come down and cover the slot. He’s tall for a FS (6’1”), which allows him to match up well against athletic TEs. However, he is a restricted free-agent, so Baltimore has the upper hand in retaining him and they would be crazy not to. He would be my #1 target, if Baltimore is stupid enough to not bring him back.

    By the way, thanks for these Need to Know series articles, Rich; these are awesome! Keep’em coming.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM

      Chris Baker was/is bad at NT. That’s a major fly in the ointment for what you propose.

      • markmiller868 - Jan 21, 2015 at 7:20 PM

        Chris Baker is a “bad” NT? Can you elaborate on your assessment?

        Objectively, Chris Baker being a pretty good player. Here are is how Chris Baker did for the 2014 season compared to ALL other Defensive Tackles (not just NTs) in the NFL: (Rank out of qualifying DTs)

        Total Stops: 18 (Ranked 18th in NFL) – Tied with Terrance Knighton, 1 less than Dan Williams
        Run Stop %: 7.9% (12th) – Terrance Knighton finished 11th
        Total QB Pressures (from NT position): 23 (23rd) – Better than Terrance Knighton and Dan Williams
        Pass Rush Productivity: 8.2% (10th) – Just 0.2% behind Suh, who finished 8th; Well ahead of Knighton (4.6%)

        To put these ranking into perspective for you, there were 87 Defensive Tackles/Nose Tackles in the NFL last year that registered 200 or more snaps.

        Chris Baker may not be Ndamukong Suh, but he is far from a “bad” player and was one of only a handful of players on our defense to perform admirably this season. Not to mention the fact that the Skins got Chris Baker as an undrafted FA and developed him into the player that he is today, which is exactly what fans have been begging the Skins to do for years.

        … (Looks in ointment, sees no fly)

        • rtcwon - Jan 21, 2015 at 8:18 PM

          Let me help you out. Baker played three positions last year. He was in the rotation at DT in nickle and played both DE & NT in base. He didn’t play NT at all until Cofield’s injury and was so bad I’ll guess most of those stats were earned when playing the other two positions. He’s Big Swaggy at DE with play making ability, at NT you’re wasting his potential even if he was merely solid.

          As someone else described, his “skills are penetrating the gaps rather than occupying multiple blockers.”

          At NT he was constantly caught sideways trying to slip a gap, easily blocked by one lineman, and unable to occupy two blockers. His assets is his speed, once he’s engaged, he’s blocked.

        • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 9:09 PM

          Baker is a solid DE in the 3-4 and could be great as a rotational guy there. He might be able to play on obvious passing downs at NT and get some push in the middle. He’s surprisingly soft against the run when he’s asked to be a space eater at NT.

          He’s got a role on this team, but it’s not as the starting NT.

  15. rtcwon - Jan 21, 2015 at 3:48 PM

    I missed where the new guy plans were clearly announced but they can’t run “more” one gap for the ends. Did you mean continue to run that scheme?

    Regardless, your description, “skills are penetrating the gaps rather than occupying multiple blockers” is Baker to a T & exactly why he was not good at NT last year.

    You need 6 to 7 guys to rotate on DL. Hatcher & Baker are there but even in the ideal scenario with Cofield & Bowen healthy and re-worked contracts, still need two to three more bodies.

    Even though the secondary needs are more glaring, you invest in the DL because quality is actually out there. League wide the talent pool in the secondary is almost dry.

    • markmiller868 - Jan 22, 2015 at 9:13 AM

      Thanks for “helping me out”, bro.

      If you read the original comment, no where did I claim that Baker is the prototypical, classic two gap NT. Quite the opposite. I even pointed out that Baker was not as effective as Williams at controlling the running game and that his skill set was that of a penetrator in the passing game. You’ll notice I called Baker a “pretty decent player” and a “serviceable player”, not a prototypical space eating NT.

      Further, the Redskins defense, like most 3-4 teams, doesn’t rely solely on 2-gap principals. Plenty of times last year Baker lined up as a 1-tech. Other times they had Baker lined up over the center, but actually his assignment was just one of the gaps. Wade Phillips has been incredibly successful at running a 1-gap 3-4 and he has never had a dominant 2 gap NT (see Jay Ratliff). So, while I agree that Baker only started at NT once Coefield got hurt and that he does not fit into the idea of a giant space eating 2-gap NT, I disagree with the idea that Baker can’t be a serviceable NT for this defense.

      Prototypical 2-gap NTs who can actually play 50% of he teams snaps, like D. Poe, are becoming increasingly rare (Dan Williams fits the mold, but plays only 40% of his teams snaps). For teams that don’t have one of the few such players, they usually rely more on 1-gap principles. Just because a guy lines up at the 0-tech. position doesn’t mean that his responsibility is for both of the A-gaps.

      I stand by my original point that there are other positions that this team could fill in FA with a younger player than Williams that would have a greater impact overall on this team for next season and several seasons there after. But I am perfectly fine with any disagreement over what this team’s top priority should be in FA. And I agree with Joe that in a perfect world Baker is versital rotational player that on a DL stacked with depth that we can move around. Unfortunately the Skins are so devoid of talent that a 2-gap NT who will only play a fraction of our defensive snaps, like Williams, seems like more a luxury.

  16. Joe Ringling - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:09 PM

    If I’m spending big on anyone it’s McCourty, the FS from New England. Then I’m trading down from #5 and then maybe even again. If we can get a few extra second rounders I’m all for it. Dream scenario is Amari Cooper is available at #5 and we get Cleveland to trade their 2 first rounders at #12 and #19. At #12 I’m taking The best available tackle. Probably someone like Lael Collins from LSU. And at #19 I want Danny Shelton. NT from Washington. Bam! Two instant starters at positions of need. If they believe Moses is capable to play RT then draft either Landon Collins or best available pass rusher. Ideally I’d love for Leonard Williams to somehow fall to us at #5 but I don’t see that happening. Then in the second round I’m drafting the best available CB or ILB. Our D needs help badly. Let’s rebuild it the right way.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 21, 2015 at 5:14 PM

      We have a GM who favors big players and McCourty is small, even for a safety. I doubt we see that happen while continue to ignore the DL.

  17. bravonknoxville - Jan 22, 2015 at 12:37 AM

    Trade down from #5 to bottom of 1st round. Take best available player. Hopefully, that team will also have either a high 3rd or 4th round w/ a 6th or 7th to go along with #5.

    It’s time to do it Patriot style and turn 1 high pick into lower 1st selection along w/ a mid & late rounder to fill needs. These mid & late picks are DL/OL depth slots to improve team.
    Sign one bonafide OL such as Lupati or Franklin & secure our QB’s for a change…aye??? Bye-bye to injury prone Orakpo and use bottom of 1st selection on edge rusher!!!

    • bravonknoxville - Jan 22, 2015 at 12:39 AM

      Should have read…to go along w/ late 1st round selection and not #5 overall…my bad!😖

  18. Ken - Jan 22, 2015 at 12:50 AM

    Rich,
    I can buy into this philosophy easily. BUT, if you can get a quality FA in his prime, who fills a gaping hole and is a real “Redskin” (ie London Fletcher or Santana Moss or maybe even D Hall), what’s the downside? I don’t see how adding a quality FA agent now and then to supplement a primarily home grown roster violates a build through the draft philosophy. My concern is the O line. If they are going to properly evaluate/develop RG and/or Cousins in my opinion they NEED significantly better pass protection. Unless the coaching ability/schemes of our new O line coach can seriously accelerate the effectiveness of Lebrius, Long, Moses and maybe even Compton, we need at least two new starters next season. The team can wait, but our QBs can’t. I can live with the frustrations (and losses) that come with gradual improvement. But our young QBs can’t wait for improved pass pro. I’m not asking for a Maginot line like the one Rypien enjoyed on the way to the Super Bowl. But there were WAY too many plays when A Morris was hit 5 yards deep a second after getting the ball(how the hell he managed to still excel is a mystery to me) and our QB’s were getting a free lap dance from a pass rusher before even finishing their drop back. That MUST be remedied NOW or we should just write off RG and Kirk as losses on the asset sheet. As the O line more than any other positional unit benefits from continuity, I would prefer signing someone in their prime who will be a mainstay for the next 5+ years, such as Jim Lachey 25 years ago. Jesus I am OLD!

    • Joe Greene - Jan 23, 2015 at 5:29 AM

      A scumbag like DHall is a real Redskin? No thanks, the last thing this team needs is another overpaid, overhyped, insolent child on the roster.

      • Ken - Jan 23, 2015 at 6:24 AM

        Joe Greene I know he has had his maturity issues in the past and can still do stupid things and that’s why I said maybe. But I think he has grown up a lot and has been a good team player and has come up big against some top receivers.
        All that said I can’t remember the man doing anything even remotely deserving being called a scumbag. Maybe my memory is failing me.

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