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Need to Know: Will Redskins fans be patient enough for rebuilding with the draft?

Jan 7, 2015, 8:04 PM EDT

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Here is what you need to know on this Thursday, January 8, 61 days before NFL free agency starts

Three and out—Will Redskins fans be patient?

1. Scot McCloughan is a believer in the draft. He cut his teeth in the Packers organization where the philosophy was, and still is, to build through the draft. As GM of the 49ers McCloughan did not add free agents until he had build a solid base through the draft.

2. I think that such a philosophy in theory would do well if you took a poll of Redskins fans. But building through the draft takes time. McCloughan was GM of the 49ers from 2005-2010. He drafted well during that time. But the team’s records were 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8, and 6-10. It wasn’t until after he left and Jim Harbaugh came aboard as the head coach did things gel in San Francisco.

3. To be sure, it doesn’t have to take that long. But McCloughan has said that he had his share of misses in the draft in both Seattle and San Francisco. The team is starting from a rather thin talent base. Will Redskins fans accept five years with no winning seasons and three of those with double-digit losses?

Out: Again, perhaps the Redskins can get lucky. A big key will be the quarterback. The Niners struggled with Alex Smith behind center. If Robert Griffin III can adapt to passing from the pocket or if Kirk Cousins can solve the interception problems, perhaps they can get a jump-start. But it’s not at all hard to imagine a slew of #FireScot hashtags populating Twitter if the team is again out of playoff contention again next November. Some will look at there being more homegrown talent on the team and accept it as part of the process. Others will look at the bottom line and ask very loudly what went wrong with the “savior”.

Timeline

—It’s been 11 days since the Redskins played a game. It will be about 247 days until they play another one

Days until: NFL free agency starts 61; 2015 NFL Draft 112

If you have any questions about what’s going on at Redskins Park, hit me up in the comments. And I’m always on Twitter @Rich_TandlerCSN.

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  1. unklewheez - Jan 8, 2015 at 5:42 AM

    Judging how the Nats and Wizards look now, fans should be patient.

    • jumbo611 - Jan 8, 2015 at 8:49 AM

      Every time I see the get rid of Griffin comments,I think about all of the people who were calling John Wall a bust and wanted him gone…

      • abanig - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:33 AM

        Lol. So true and many others as well

      • redskins 4life - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:43 AM

        You know that is definitely right every thing that go wrong (they would say or write) is 99.9% RG fault. The special team played bad “well it all starts with the QB” I’m so sick of this BS they got a new GM first thing he got to do is trade RG SMH. How about calling plays to suit him such as running the ball with a more then capable back in #46 and #29 how about bring him along slowly as a pocket passer. I would have kept the pistol offense (running the ball with #46,#29 and using it for more play action) more while increasing the pocket passing plays week by week. I would not have ask him to go out their and throw the ball 30-35 times we don’t need that we where never that (hey Jay we’re not the Pats, Broncos, Packers or the Saints) run the damn ball.

        • rhinochaserdesign - Jan 8, 2015 at 12:21 PM

          3 years is plenty enough time to make an evaluation of what Griffin can and can’t do. Enough is enough.

          For sure, all of the Skins woes don’t fall on Griffin’s shoulders. But he has to be accountable for HIS own play and he just doesn’t have what it takes to be a pro football player. I took him 3 years to learn how to SLIDE. And you think he’s going to grasp all the other fundamentals? No way.

          Also, we had to throw the ball a lot because we were always playing catch up. A QB has to make throws when we get behind. Griffin just can’t. Simple as that.

          And it’s too bad – I’m routing for Griffin. I hope he does better on another team. But when you have every coach on the pro level that he’s ever been coached by – when they all say the same thing – you have to just accept it. Call a spade a spade. Let it go. Move on.

        • redskinsinrichmondva - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:37 PM

          Griffin played his first season in a system that relies more on pure dropback passes than he had during his two previous seasons with Shanahan (even in 2013, Shanahan used a significantly higher % of play-action or read-option plays than Gruden). Keep in mind that this is a player who didn’t play in a “dropback-style” offense in college. He also played only six full starts this season. That’s just a few important things to consider; if you’re disappointed that he isn’t a star QB when you consider the context, then you’re not being fair with your assessment.

          FWIW, Griffin played around league-average levels in four of his six full starts, with his duds coming against Tampa Bay and San Francisco.

      • Joe Greene - Jan 8, 2015 at 1:05 PM

        John Wall took the time to work on his game every season and has improved markedly on his weaknesses.

        Bob has gotten significantly worse and cannot execute the primary function of his position. There’s no comparison.

        • redskinsinrichmondva - Jan 8, 2015 at 1:38 PM

          “John Wall took the time to work on his game every season and has improved markedly on his weaknesses.”

          Revisionist history. There were lots of questions about the #1 pick even as recently as 2013; until his first full breakout season in 2014, Wall was an oft-injured player who had average impact on his team. And, unlike in football, there’s a much larger sample size to go by in Wall’s sport.

          At least Griffin enjoyed both individual and team success at some point during his first three seasons. Wall did not, and the skeptics were out in full force throughout that period.

        • Joe Greene - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:52 PM

          Wall was “oft injured?” Are you serious? He had a minor injury as a rookie and missed 13 games. He was completely healthy his entire second year. He then had the knee injury in year three where he spent the bulk of his rehab time working on his jumpshot and came back to finish that year exceptionally strongly. Year 4 was another big step forward, and now in year 5 he’s been legitimately mentioned in MVP discussions.

          He had the 2nd highest assists per game average of any rookie in league history. He’s been considered arguably the best on ball defender at PG since the middle of his second season. He’s been a very good rebounder and shot blocker since day 1. His shooting percentage has been climbing each year and is now 5% better than when he entered the league. He’s had at or near a 2.5-to-1 assist to turnover ratio since day one and it’s now closing in on 3-to-1 since they surrounded him with good shooters.

          You’re completely out of your mind if you think there’s anything close to the way Wall has progressed and the way Bob has massively regressed. Wall got his max extension with nobody outside of DC questioning it at all while Bob is legitimately in the discussion for getting traded and not having his extension year activated. There’s absolutely no comparison.

        • redskinsinrichmondva - Jan 8, 2015 at 3:49 PM

          Joe, if you’re not aware of the advanced numbers that measure NBA player impact outside of the flawed assists/steals per game and shooting percentages, you should read about them. Wall wasn’t anywhere near a star-impact player for most of his first three seasons in the league. Now, he did have a strong performamce spurt in his 2013 season when he wasn’t injured (although he still didn’t have anywhere near the impact that rookie Griffin had in the NFL), but that’s precisely the issue: he wasn’t on the court as much as alot of other starters and main-minute players. See this link http://bkref.com/tiny/9utsp

          For players that played at least 30 min/G, Wall is below the middle-of-the-pack in minutes played. I prefer to use minutes played since it’s fairer to Wall (you can play in more games but not as many minutes, which reduces your ability to impact your team), but even if you go by games played or games started, his name drops even further on the list. He missed a quarter of his team’s starts, which is significant for starters in his sport.

          And using seasons 4-5 for Wall is invalid. Griffin played in three NFL seasons.

        • redskinsinrichmondva - Jan 8, 2015 at 3:56 PM

          TL;DR: Wall did not live up to the #1 pick hype to start his career (after three seasons). Average on-court player impact and injury issues; not to mention zero overall team success. Those are facts.

    • abanig - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:32 AM

      Yeah but those teams aren’t the Redskins.

      Meaning, they aren’t the cities baby and those teams aren’t the #1 team that DC fans want to be a perennial winner again like in the 70s & 80s

  2. sidepull - Jan 8, 2015 at 7:10 AM

    Been waiting this long for football GM, seems like forever. I didnt think I would live long enough to see the Redskins make it back to relevancy let alone a superbowl. Now I feel, in time, I might, and my kids will see that happen if we hang on to this guy and let him work with out lynching him. I am not so sure it is the fans who need patience. Can Snyder wait it out and bigger yet, can he not meddle for that long?

    • unklewheez - Jan 8, 2015 at 7:51 AM

      Yes that is the question. Will Snyder give him the time and space he needs.

  3. mr.moneylover - Jan 8, 2015 at 8:00 AM

    Some redskins are never patient this past season I was seeing #firegruden after just one season they expect a new coach would come in and turn things around in one year…if scot can hit on the key postions then redskins will have a better record next year sometimes you gotta wait until the following year to find more of your type of players…when he watch practices from the side he will go get and search for more talent if needed …back then and still is seahawks use to bring in new players during the season to make the 53 roster redskins only change up they roster only for the practice squad

    • jumbo611 - Jan 8, 2015 at 8:57 AM

      It’s kinda funny. He wants people to be patient with him while he figures it out,but he’s not willing to be patient with his players.

      I didn’t/don’t want him fired because of how unprepared his players were,or even because of the horrible play calling,or unwillingness to change his vaunted playbook. It’s the amateurish way that he went about his job. That didn’t/doesn’t inspire confidence that he can get the job done.

      • hk2000 - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:28 AM

        So true!!

      • mr.moneylover - Jan 9, 2015 at 9:28 AM

        Jay gruden shouldnt have to adjust his playbook its either u learn it or u dont…it was rg3 who said he wanted to become a pocket passer the coaches didnt force him to be a pocket passer…

  4. jscx3 - Jan 8, 2015 at 8:56 AM

    The fans that aren’t patient don’t know football. It takes time. Look how bad they have been and the talent. As long if they are competing hard. Not to say they don’t . Just hire a young dc, I like the guys from SF. One of those will do. I have been a fan for 33 years never seen them this bad, but I always have patients and hope. This season did test my hope. It’s all the dumb decisions. Snyder, being that he bought his favorite football team finally realized his way was not working. Very successful in the business world, NFL is business but the big difference is you don’t lose your top playmakers to injury. Just be patient fans. All we have is time.

  5. charley42 - Jan 8, 2015 at 8:57 AM

    I think that boosting that O-line and a decent DC can turn this team around enough to win a few more games each year which would make the fans happy that we’re no longer cellar dwellers.

  6. celticsforever - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:06 AM

    PATIENCE. The new GM has about 87 things to do and he’s not even started yet. Among the immediate pressing items: determine if you are keeping Gruden, what are you doing with RG3 – extension? Release? Trade? Status quo? Prepare for the draft. Decide what free agents of yours you want to keep, who to tender, who to release, who to go after….. just stuff like that. Let the man work and let’s stay positive for good results. This man is proven. Let him work. As Aaron Rodgers says… R-E-L-A-X

    • jumbo611 - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:17 AM

      Celticsforever… Great post!!

  7. ET - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:13 AM

    If we see gradual improvement in the record and a sense that the team is competing against organizations like Dallas and Philly, I think most fans will have (some) patience. Hopefully we can get to .500 sooner rather than later and turn the defense back into a respectable unit.

  8. hk2000 - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:26 AM

    I think the fans will be patient, I think more likely, the media -certain people in the media, for sure- will be driving the doubt wagon. There are many prominent media personnel in D.C. who just hate Snyder and thus will be going out of their way to find or if necessary CREATE controversy with made up leaks and such. Having said that, even the best talent can be futile if you do not have the right coach, we saw that with the 49ers and how they tuned it around in 1 year with the right coach. Gruden years, whether 2 or more, will just be a waste.

  9. Kevin Andes - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:26 AM

    Smart fans will be patient. DC has 3 other teams who have patiently built thru draft. Watching the Nats and Wizards build was exciting even tho there were more losses than wins at times. Now look at them! But, will the sports media be patient?

  10. abanig - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:31 AM

    Lol. Redskins patient! Lol. Go trough another losing season or two building through the draft, the Redskins? Lol

    This fan base doesn’t have patience in a rebuild either.

    Most fans say they want to build through the draft but they fail to realize doing so takes 3,4,5 years.

    Are redskins fans and Dan Snyder – the biggest redskins fan there is – going to be patient enough in building through the draft.

    I don’t see the redskins being big players in FA this year, I see us letting Rak go and actually getting a compensatory pick? Have the Redskins ever done that in their history?

    Still though, this town and owner don’t have patience for another 3/4 win season and building through the draft probably means another losing season or two before they are perennial playoff contenders

    • Joe Greene - Jan 8, 2015 at 10:02 PM

      After his injury filled season, how does losing Orakpo qualify for a compensatory pick?

  11. goback2rfk - Jan 8, 2015 at 9:33 AM

    Patient? Rebuilding? We have been “rebuilding” for the better part of 2 decades now. We want to see results not another waiting period with hing guaranteed. I am taking Brian Mitchell’s advice and not spending a dime on the Redskins until they improve.

    • hcicron - Jan 8, 2015 at 11:11 AM

      That kind of outlook is exactly the problem with some fans and Snyder thinks just like you. ” I want results now because we have been bad for so long!” Problem is bringing in a new guy and not only expecting him to immediately correct what took 20+ years to break down but also holding him accountable for those 20+ years. After this season we just had I’m looking forward to an actual rebuild and we gladly sit thru more tough times if improvements can be seen. Not just more wins but rather a younger, hungrier roster full of observable, cohesive talent. The wins will come after that is achieved.

    • brucealmty - Jan 8, 2015 at 11:34 AM

      The Baltimore Ravens welcome you support.

    • rhinochaserdesign - Jan 8, 2015 at 12:26 PM

      we haven’t been rebuilding for 2 decades. We’ve been trying to ‘win now’ for 2 decades.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 8, 2015 at 1:08 PM

      I don’t think you know what rebuilding is if you think that’s happened at any point in the last 2 decades.

  12. redskinsinrichmondva - Jan 8, 2015 at 11:02 AM

    Yes. Patience. Rebuilding. These are things that are truly valued around here, what with the head coach benching TWO of his QBs during the season and (some) fans that want Griffin traded after every sack or incompletion.

    Welcome to D.C., Scot. Hope you have the patience to put up with this dysfunctional franchise, and don’t be surprised if you’re also wanted out of town if the team isn’t a Super Bowl contender next season.

  13. brucealmty - Jan 8, 2015 at 11:41 AM

    Hopefully Scot/Jay will do a Jimmy Johnson/Pete Carroll on the Redskins and bring in players fast and furious to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade every position, every year. It took both those guys a couple years b4 they were successful with their new organizations, the Redskins will be no different.

  14. kenlinkins - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:02 PM

    Job one for Scot McCloughan will be installing sanity at Redskins Park which might include cleaning house of those who think they work on Wall Street or The House / Senate. Over the years, we Redskins fans have seen a long list of new Head Coach’s, GM’s, DC’s, OC’s, front office types, etc. who walk in the door, look around and say “we are not that far away from winning, we can fix this” only to see a year later a look of shock on their faces after they have experienced first hand the leaks, back stabbing, locker room drama, in fighting, and no holds barred self promoting friends of the owner / GM / Movie Stars / Star Player and or good friend of someone at ESPN, NFL.Com Draft Kings etc. If Scot McCloughan can some how remove the idea that the process / rules are not meant for me from the core of Players / Scouts / Others and can get everyone on the “It is not about me, it is about winning” band wagon, maybe just maybe he can make improvements in year one. The new GM doesn’t seem like the type who uses drama as a weapon and IMO will make short work of anyone who try’s to continue the ways of the past. Go get them Scot, let the heads start to roll!

  15. kenlinkins - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:18 PM

    Being hearing for a few days that Kyle Shanahan is leaving the Cleveland Browns, that he and Mike Shanahan will be a team again some where in the NFL as HC and OC (or maybe Kyle will get a head coaching job some where). Some have them going to Buffalo, but I wonder if Kyle can get the same deal as daddy got from the Redskins to go away (i.e. getting paid to go away). You got to give it to the Shanahan’s, they seem to know how to work owners / GM’s for the benefit of their own wealth no matter the win lose record they carry! Seems that The Brown’s and The Redskins have more in common then just Morocco Brown.

    • Joe Greene - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:56 PM

      Eh, it’s Cleveland. They’re the franchise that fired a coach and GM after 1 season on the job. Kyle got there and they have no NFL caliber QB and the only NFL caliber WR was suspended for 10 games by the league and got suspended 1 more by the team. I’m not sold on Kyle as an OC or HC, but there’s no way to accurately judge someone in that Cleveland mess.

  16. deepball1 - Jan 8, 2015 at 2:20 PM

    not a problem with me. I have already penciled in the Redskins for a 5-11 season in 2015 as the Skins build a solid foundation. AND with only 5 wins I would expect yet another top 5 or 6 draft pick.

    There are just too many question marks to even dream about playoffs next season. 1) QB? 2) New Defensive Coach/rebuilt secondary 3) Special Team question marks 4) Offensive line question marks and 5) Gruden Calling plays is a Big Question Mark.. (I think we need an offensive coordinator who calls plays)

  17. wildbill1952 - Jan 8, 2015 at 4:09 PM

    Judging a QB’s performance without giving the QB a good offensive line is like judging a car without giving it tires. It may look good on blocks, but it just doesn’t go anywhere well.

    Patience? I am impatient for this team to start rebuilding by putting some tires on this puppy. We’ve already seen it change the radio, the mirror, the upholstery and the driver many times over the past 15 years, none of which made the team go. If I see new tires I know the team is at least going in some direction different than it previously has.

  18. shermanp79 - Jan 8, 2015 at 4:47 PM

    We have learned from the past there are few overnight successes. The only hope for that is if the talent on this team has under performed on Defense. With a better defense it gives the QB some room to grow. If we need next year to figure out we must Draft another QB, which may very well be true, this is going to take at least 3 years just to be competitive. We have to have guys from the past couple Drafts improve and be competent players. I said the same thing last year so I’m not feeling optimistic. If fans can’t understand this will take time, they aren’t educated fans. At this point we can’t focus on the past, we are going to have to focus on this point forward. It’s shocking Snyder waited this long to finally bring in the guy we needed most, a true talent evaluator. I don’t understand it, if you are losing and are trying everything else, it’s clear talent must be the problem. They should of done this last year instead of Allen getting up there and throwing Shanahan under the bus. His track record wasn’t very good. He clearly didn’t do everything that was best for the franchise. Maybe we are at the point Snyder is tired of the same old thing each year. He will finally let everyone do the job they are best suited for, rather than worrying about personal relationships. That has to continue with the QB. Last year I hoped RG3 matured and learned from his experiences. That he would do everything needed to get better and become the franchise QB he and the fans want him to become. That didn’t happen and once again we had the same issues. This point forward he is owed nothing from us fans, coaches and most importantly the owner. He needs to go out and earn it. He needs to prove he wants the job and must deserve it. Otherwise nobody will respect him, we will has the same crap again next year. We need to start moving forward. Everyone is held accountable and needs to focus on doing whatever they can to do their jobs better. Only then will this team make progress. Hopefully some of the players respond to a new DC, I believe the Coach was a big part of the problem. Too many players failed to improve. The only guy who improved each of the past couple years is Kerrigan. We need more of him,. A guy who was willing to say he needs to improve and what it was he was going to work on. Unlike RG3 who felt it wasn’t his place to critique himself and explain what he could do to improve. That says so much, a reason I feel there is little chance of him being a franchise QB this team can follow. It’s hard to say cut him or trade him but when Gruden mentioned this team might improve with subtractions, what else could he be thinking. He is wore out after dealing with the RG3 saga, now two HC in 2 years. I don’t doubt he would like RG3 to succeed, you saw excitement between the two for a moment but the rest has to give him serious doubts. Let the talent evaluator make the final decision. Well here I go having hope once again after a poor season.

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